Lying about PPE in the care sector.

[Rattymcratty]

Name changed incase this is outing.

We went into lockdown as soon as there was conversations about over 70s going into isolation. I’ve been run ragged waiting up into the middle of the night to ensure home delivery etc and I’ve been doing all of my 90 year old nan’s care to prevent Covid coming into the house.

Two weeks ago I rang up her care agency to ask if they’ve got PPE yet - they told me that masks are only needed if the client is showing symptoms (surely this can’t be true). I asked them to get back in contact once they get proper PPE as I’m not willing to put Nan in unnecessary danger as we’re doing okay.

We got a call at the weekend that they’ve now got masks/PPE and if we’d like to resume the care package. All seemed fine as Nan has perked up having contact with the outside world. She classes the carers as her ‘friends’ - some she’s known for 7 years and obviously see more regularly than half the family.

One of the carers told me at lunch as the deposable masks are to be worn for a week!

I’m livid. The carers are lovely and good at their jobs but I feel like I’ve been conned. I don’t even think they’re surgical masks maybe the ones worn in the beauty industry? To make things worse it’s going to really confuse my Nan when I cancel the care again.

Is there any legislation I can throw at them? They definitely gave me the impression that it the PPE is fit for use.

Hang on this may not be as simple as you are saying. Care homes currently are not simply operating on governmental guidelines, it's not as simple as that . They have guidance from three different places and one senior contracts officer changed the rules on length of use three times in one day (I know for a fact because I heard the conversation of one of them whilst on a zoom with my learner who was the care manager).

Please be very very careful unless you are very sure they are lying. They may have had different guidance (which granted may be wrong). In a mix of 40 care services I deal with there is a range of some having full hazmat (not viral , infection control based ) to ones that are desperately egging the government as they are running out.

Please in the nicest way go talk to the manager as much as ground carers are amazing they may not be communicating accurately . Most of, and know exactly what's happening but some genuinely will say things that are not true or quite accurate as they have misunderstood.

Don't throw legislation, any care manager worth their salt knows the legislation.

I said care homes but I mean care services, the manager I was talking about was a homecare service. Can you raise this to the manager again?

A mask is fuck all use anyway. As long as they are observing strict hygiene and using gloves appropriately a mask is neither here nor there.

The poor care workers are canon fodder. It's disgusting how they are being treated. Both because they are paid peanuts, putting themselves at risk and the elderly they are caring for. National disgrace.

If a mask makes no difference why do doctors and nurses bother wearing them in Covid 19 wards?

Where are you getting your information on what PPE they should be wearing from? They will be working to PHE or HPS guidance depending on whereabouts you are, which is publicly available on their website, but it isn't straightforward so be very careful before accusing anyone of anything.

@hopeishere

"A mask is fuck all use anyway. As long as they are observing strict hygiene and using gloves appropriately a mask is neither here nor there."
I bet there are thousands of doctors and nurses who don't agree with you.

Working on a covid ward is not the same as a care home. No AGP for a start.

Most people don't use them properly - don't cover their nose, they touch them, adjust them, move them to speak etc.

No there is no legislation. They simply have guidelines which can change.

The carers are at risk as well.

Your best bet is doing your Nan's care yourself.

If you cannot do that you should source masks and gloves so they are available to use when the carer turns up.

I know 3 people who have taken on the care of others to avoid them having external carers in and one is immobile.

We are told masks are of no use because the government are making sure the public do not buy masks needed for medical staff. But the virus passes in droplets...the gloves/washing hands is to avoid touching something which comes out of someone’s nose and mouth - so of course masks are helpful. Sadly my lovely f’n’law died in a nursing home from Covid. He has severe dementia and Parkinson’s and has been locked down in the nursing home for sux weeks. He was not physically able to touch his own face so either a gloved hand passed the virus to him or some poor non masked carer.

The PPE guidance issued by HPS and PHE is a fucking disgrace. It is a clear downgrade from what WHO, ECDC and CDC and practically everyone else says. And no, most doctors are not happy with this "guidance".

@ittakes2, so sorry regarding your FiL.

The PPE situation continues to be an absolute disgrace. I know of an 85 year old who cancelled his careers because they don’t have adequate PPE. They use the same on all their calls and he’s not the first of the day.

PPE guidance changes and keeps being downgraded. Apparently you can use it for a whole “session”, variously defined. Bottom line is, there’s not enough so let’s pretend it’s not important.

The public health England guidelines for those working on covid wards are a basic surgical mask. They're pretty useless and yes, look like the ones they wear in beauty parlours. The proper PPE masks ffp3/n95 are for aerosol generating procedures only so not for use except with high flow o2, NIV, in theatres/dental practices to icu.

With all patients we wear a basic surgical mask, small apron and normal gloves, regardless of their covid status. I don't have access to gowns as we aren't entitled to it except for AGPs.

Unsure of the guidance for care homes but this is what we're dealing with in hospitals. It's dreadful.

We don't change masks between patients but we do change gloves and aprons.

To the pp who said that masks are useless, this is exactly the situation where surgical masks are likely to be beneficial. Surgical masks are effective at protecting those around the wearer if the wearer is carrying the virus without knowing, and in this situation the biggest risk is a carer unknowingly bringing tor virus into the homes of multiple vulnerable people.

There are different types of mask.
I'm seeing patients in the community.
We follow Public health England advice.
So C19 positive patients with a test less than 7 days is full PPE , special mask visor robe, full 9 yards .
Positive after 7 days or shielding, regular mask, gloves and apron.