To be so worried about my Dad visiting today?

[Mincingfuckdragon2]

I don't think IABU, I really just need some advice. The relationships board might be a more appropriate spot, but I'm posting here in the hope that you all will give it to me straight.

My father is coming over to my place today (not in UK, it's mid morning here), and I'm worried about it.

Dad has a history of being a bit of an arsehole. He's quite controlling and still often speaks to all his children (who range in age from mid 20s to mid 40s) as though they're 10. Actually, it's worse than that - he can be quite abusive both physically (although not for 10 years or so) and certainly emotionally/mentally (yelling, namecalling, belittling). We generally all stand up to him, although it's exhausting. He's quite verbally abusive to my Mum though and I think she's scared of him.

Last time he was here (we can have 2 people who aren't members of our current household to visit as long as we stay 1.5 metres from each other at all times) he decided he was going to do some DIY on our house. I told him it wasn't necessary and he insisted. I caved because it was easier than having an argument with him - he gets quite cross if he offers help and any of his children refuse it. I think it's a form of controlling behaviour. (He always does a shit job too, but that's another story).

So he rang late yesterday afternoon and announced he'd be coming over today to do this work. I said OK. And now I'm really nervous and cannot work. I'm usually OK when he visits - I think it's because I'm here by myself with only the children as DH had to go into work today.

Last time he did any work at my house was about 2 years ago. He always gets angry when he works with others. This particular day day was pretty standard - he gradually got angrier and angrier, until he yelled and told me to 'bloody hurry up' because I didn't move a power cord quickly enough. I stood up to him and told him very firmly not to speak to me like that. He then got right up in my face and yelled into my face with such vitriol, and called me a "fucking bitch" amongst other delightful things. I told him he would have to leave if he couldn't behave. He backed down, went for a walk to cool off, then came back calm and said 'Well, we had a fight". I said words to the effect of 'Yes, and you behaved badly, and if you ever behave like that again you won''t be welcome here". He didn't say sorry. He muttered something or another then went back outside to finish the job. Then he left. He, as always, pretended nothing had happened. (For background - he never ever acknowledges that it is his fault, ever. These kind of altercations happened weekly when I was a child and very often escalated into violence and I had bruises/black eyes maybe once a year from it and he still almost never said sorry. On one occasion when he had punched me repeatedly, slapped my face, and dragged me about 3 metres on the ground by my hair, I didn't speak to him for 3 days. He then said "I've been feeling sick about this for 3 days. I shouldn't have hit you, but you make me so mad - more mad than anyone else does. Now give me a cuddle and let's put this behind us" or words to that effect. Then he pretended nothing had happened. I was 11 or 12 at the time. He has since claimed he 'can't remember' doing any of those things. My mum and brother saw him, so he actually did do them. He has also pulled me off a horse then kicked me while I was on the ground and told me to stop snivelling like a dog. He's also denied doing that. So he's not nice).

I was pretty low contact with him for a year or so after this experience while working with him, including because he started being mean to my daughters including about their weight so I reduced contact. He was a lot better for a while, but in January he came to the house again and flipped out because one of my nephews (I'll call him Jay) couldn't get his boots off to come inside for lunch so he told Jay that Jay wasn't allowed to have any lunch. I told Dad not to be so ridiculous, that it was my house and I didn't care if Jay came inside with his boots on and that Jay would be getting lunch regardless. Cue what I can only describe as a tantrum from Dad - stomping around, raising his voice, and lots of passive aggressive comments said in a loud sarcastic voice ('Fine", "Well you should do what you want" "What I think doesn't matter' and the like). This behaviour is very common for Dad. I stood up to him, and told him to 'Just stop it' and treated him a bit like a toddler having a tantrum. This was quite effective and seemed to shut Dad up. Jay got lunch in the end and Dad sulked for about an hour - he went downstairs to 'discuss' my behaviour with my mother and I could hear him whispering at her that 'She can't speak to me like that' and "She should have dealt with that differently" and various other things (My poor mum - he did this where I could hear on purpose I suspect. He bullies her too.).

Anyway, he's coming round today and I'm worried. I've gained a bit of weight during isolation and this always annoys him - he doesn't say anything but he will look me up and down repeatedly or stare at my fat bits with a look on his face like he smells something bad. It makes him more picky about other things too. I guess the fact I've gained weight makes me worried he's more likely to be angry and to become abusive.

So yes, I know he's an arsehole. I stand up to him pretty firmly these days - I'm reasonably tough and am used to dealing with arseholes at work. I used to get upset and cry, now I just get angry (it's taken years, I'm in my 40s). I'm happy to kick him out if he's being a twat, I've done it before. I don't know why I'm so bothered by this today. I think maybe because the last time he did work here he was so abusive and it really upset me, and today I'm by myself. Or maybe because I actually didn't want him to do the work in the first place but agreed anyway - so I feel on the back foot.

So any strategies you can suggest? Last time, speaking to him like an adult having a childish tantrum worked (except then he berated Mum instead of me - I feel terrible about that especially as I didn't step in, but she gets upset if we intervene), so I'm thinking I might do that again (eg in a firm voice 'Stop that please', "That is not a helpful way to behave", 'Don't speak like that please', 'Do you need a break to calm down?'). I think that worked last time as I didn't show any fear at all - once he sees fear he's like a shark who smells blood. But does anyone have any other suggestions?

Apologies for the word vomit, I'm actually a bit beside myself which is unusual.

Also, your mum won't leave him, because he suits her own inner narrative. Good provider, matyr syndrome, victim of circumstance, etc.

Yep this was my Dad too. Even the pulling me by my hair. Horrific.

My Dad died 10 years ago but even if he was around when I'd had my child, there is no way on this EARTH he would be around them.

OP the fact you are taking on board comments and dismissing others show you already know what you need to to in your individual circumstances, it’s not always black and white. You’ve been very brave posting on here. I really hope it works out, please send an update to let us know x

@TenShortStories Lately, you may have have noticed that I've started to stand up to you a little

That actually made me laugh it's so ridiculous! No disrespect but that would MASSIVELY antagonise an abusive person, not help!!! 😂

@Nitpickpicnic - no he doesn't own our house (we own outright - I've been reasonably professionally successful fortunately and haven't relied on him for money since I left home at 18. As an aside, I think this thread makes me sound much younger than I am - perhaps opening up and being vulnerable about childhood abuse has made me sound a bit childish or maybe I'm just a bit immature when it comes to dealing with him and it shows). Mum has a key though, and as they live together he can of course access it. I'd forgotten about that actually, I'll have to ask for it back.

Actually that doesn’t suit us Dad. Those sorts of jobs can wait until much later in the year. Put your feet up, and let’s chat soon.’ If he kicks off on the phone, don’t get drawn in. Say ‘Good thing we put off your visit, you’re obviously in a very strange and antisocial mood. I’m hanging up now. Hope you feel better soon. This is very helpful, thank you.

Sounds like you need (further?) therapy to unpack your family stuff. You may be doing ‘better’, but the aim with snakes is to disentangle yourself and your loved ones from their poisonous bite. Not to offer your neck as long as they promise not to deliver a lethal dose! Yes, I think I would benefit from some more counselling. And your analogy is apt.

@Mincingfuckdragon2 You may have noticed I've started to stand up to that behaviour

OP, that is just going to antagonise any abusive person, like a red rag to a bull!
I mean obviously you know your Dad, but mine was exactly like yours and I winced when I read that. My Dad would've responded indignantly to that and it would've been bad.
As you said you'd appreciate any suggestions, mine is to rethink that one particular sentence.

My situation is the reverse. Controlling and abusive mother who I have to tolerate to see my father. Sadly, it’s only him she bullies now and nothing can seem to make him stand up to her, and I don’t try to help anymore as she only takes it out on him when they get home (which worries me as he has a heart condition).

My sister has given up on them both after a big argument with my mum, although she’d like to see my dad. It’s sad as he hasn’t seen his grandchildren in a few years now and likely won’t ever again (I don’t have any, only my sister).

@HavenDilemma I'm sorry you went through that. I think if I was having children now then I'd be no contact. I had my first child 12 years ago when my boundary setting was even worse than it is now, and also I thought I was 'handling' it by using it to teach my children - but other posters' comments have made me realise that's not true.

As to @TenShortStories suggestion, I'm going to use it as I think it might work provided he's in a good mood at the outset. If he's in a bad mood then his response would likely be a snarky/aggressive 'Have you just? And how have you done that then?" which I plan to ignore completely (or if he persists, to say 'We can talk about that later' - I often do this when he tries to deflect.).

@justilou1 Your house is not actually his spare shed for when he has run out of DIY jobs to ruin at his own place. this is so true. I'm going to be much firmer about refusing help - because I actually don't want it and it's not useful. Am I minimising Mum's part in this? Maybe. She's physically tiny and not strong and I think was and is scared of him. I was angry at her for a really long time for not protecting us (and not leaving when it became apparent that she couldn't protect us) but now I feel sorry for her.

I am feeling much better and much more in control. Thank you all. And @Thepigeonsarecoming I'll update - either that I've booted him out (he's on the roof right now) or that I've had the chat I mentioned above.

@RabidChinchilla I'm sorry to hear that, it's shit. I hope you and your dad are OK in the longer term.

Ninety percent of the time my father is good (good company, will help anyone, active in the community, generous). And I have to realise that this doesn't mean I should expose myself or my children to the other ten percent when he's a fucking nightmare.

Right, as I'm now much calmer I'm going to get some work done. Thanks everyone!

Fuck that shit OP.

You are contemplating allowing an abuser (because, let's face it, that's what he is) into your home, your safe haven, to do work that you already know will be shoddy.

Your boundaries are way too low. Your children are witnesses to how he treats you - you say he's never been physically violent to you but they have experienced his 'tantrums'. OP they have experienced his abuse of you and they need you to teach them that this is completely unacceptable.

Ring him and tell him not to come over. Period. Get yourself back in counselling/therapy - you still have a lot of work to do. Be there for your mum but do not allow this man into your home to abuse you with your children present.

Good luck, hope he does whatever he's in the middle of doing and goes home soon.
No way should you be allowing him to come to your house and do jobs he feels like doing. I can't stand bullies. Change the locks and stop contact. I doubt your Mum is as weak as you think. She'll make a way to see the kids if she really wants to.

Sorry but you aren’t rely standing up to him. He might be ok 90% if the time but the rest of the time he’s vile, and you are exposing your kids to that. As soon as he does one thing wrong, kick him out. Not sure what you think your notes will do as your parents both do/enable/allow this behaviour.

OP your fathers insistence on coming over and doing diy jobs that you don’t want is his way of dominating you. In other words, “I want to do this, and therefore I will, even though it’s your house. I’m in charge of you”.

He had the double whammy of when he’s at your house he can then verbally abuse you. You know that these situations always end the same, so why let them happen in the first place?

If you do one thing, tell your father you don’t want them coming over to do diy jobs.

For me, and I know this must be awful and intense to read these comments, what stands out is the "teachable moments" thing. What you may be doing is teaching your children to pacify and placate an angry person, and put up with their shit. I realise it took you such a long time to get to the place you are now, and I think you're amazing - really.

But what might happen when your children are older and perhaps in relationships with someone who responds like your Dad does? Screamed at, their boundaries repeatedly crossed, always the risk of physical violence? Will they deal with it the way you've dealt with it thus far?

I'm probably speaking out of my arse, I'm not a therapist. But that would be my worry.

Ninety percent of the time my father is good (good company, will help anyone, active in the community, generous).

OP the thing is most people are wonderful 90% of the time. Generous, great fun, kind to old ladies. It’s how we all behave the 10% that counts. When we are pissed off, stressed, knackered.

For most people the 10% is being a bit grumpy, maybe just going quiet, or in my case a bit tearful. Not turning into a sadistic, violent bully like your father.

OP I have been so moved by your posts, I really hope you manage to extricate yourself from your terrible parents (and I’m sorry I see your mother as totally complicit. If you can all see what a c*nt he is don’t you think your mother can too?! Imagine a lifetime of allowing your husband to treat your little children like he has).

He sounds like my dad, my dad has been over once since lockdown (unannounced, just walked in), he’s also the same if doing any work, he swears and shouts a lot but I kind of laugh at him now, he likes to tell me if I have gained weight too even though he’s no oil painting himself. I just let it go over my head and don’t take it to heart. I’m getting close to asking him to come and do some work, I need 2 sheds taken down and a new one put up so would not be close to him.

Why would you ever see him again??

I want my Mum to have a good relationship with her grandkids (because apart from not protecting us as kids she was pretty awesome)

Big 'apart from' there! If your mum has done the right thing by you, she would have left your abusive father and never let you see him again. She has been an awful parent, exposing you to his behaviour and not protecting you.

If she chooses to stay with your dad, that's her lookout. You don't have to get involved.

I wouldn't want my dc anywhere around him, even if they do see you standing up to him. What's the point?
What do they get out of seeing him?

Am I right in guessing he’s perfectly controlled around strangers? Generous to a fault even? He is his best PR officer. He needs to ensure that he has a great public image because he can’t risk any of his dirty laundry being aired at all. He relies on the image of being a pillar of the community rather than the abusive bastard that he is at home.

Thanks all. Today was uneventful in the end - he did his thing and left. He said he'd be back next week to do some more work, and I said that wouldn't be necessary (had to say it twice but I think he'll respect that decision).

I am really very grateful for the considered answers I've received here, especially from those who've had to revisit their own horrible childhood experiences to answer.

I have a plan moving forward to tell him that if there is even one more outburst of rudeness or hostility he will not be welcome at our house for an undetermined period. My mother will just have to cope with the implications of that. This thread has made me see that I'm not really 'managing' his behaviour and shouldn't be exposing my children to it, even if it's mild by comparison to how he treated me and my siblings when we were children.

I'm pretty tired - today has been exhausting - so I'm going to bed early. Thanks again.

(@justilou1, to answer your question he's an arsehole to most people at some point and doesn't have many friends as a result - but he's never really gone for me when my husband has been around which shows as you say that he know what he's doing is wrong).

I cannot get over that your mother allowed him to hit you, give you black eyes, drag you by your hair, kick you when you were on the ground and you think she is a good mother!

@Howyiz, she wasn't there usually when he was violent but she knew he did it and sometimes saw it - we lived on a farm which is how he could do this stuff mostly without an audience. Those two particular instances were the worst examples, usually it was a single blow. Still she should have protected us and (god knows I'd leave immediately if my husband ever did one hundredth of the things he did) and I take your point.

I'm not going to respond for a bit now. The prospect of cutting him out of my life is making me feel really sad. I appreciate all the comments and agree I need to cut him out if there is any further aggression of any type.

I guess I know there will be and now I'm sad about the inevitable. I think I need to have a bit of a cry and process things somewhat.

Well done for surviving today, and reaching out!!! I hope you get some therapy when you’re to it. I’m also very pleased you have a lovely, supportive DH who keeps your Dad’s behaviour in line. 💐💐💐

@OP

I get it. I know why you don't break contact. I really do. I've been there. Having a violent father or mother is different from w violent partner

It's not hard to cut off the family ties. Even if they physically beat you. There's usually massive guilt. That comes with the feeling of losing not only one parent. But both if the other tends to stay. So those people saying you owe him nothing etc. Don't really know the intrinsic properties of cutting off all family. Regardless of what they do to you

I think your best best. Be firm. What you did before. Don't you dare speak to me like that. Remain really really calm. But fierce

Pm me if you want a friend xxx I've been there xx

Come and find the "But we took you to Stately homes" thread in relationships board.

You are not alone. Plenty of us have had abusive/neglected childhoods xx

Well done OP, for reaching out. I agree with Justiloo.
My mother used to say my father was gentleman John out in society/the devil inside the house.
He had a responsible job, and knew exactly what he was doing.
Don't assume he has NOT abused your mother, he probably has, why would he not if he was allowed to get away with abusing you.

He sounds, like he has a personality disorder/ learned behaviour, but your job is to protect your children.
I'm glad you have a realistic and supportive partner.

If its at all possible, could you see yourself doing a little more counselling in the future? Anything to help you stand up to him, and demonstrate to your children this is not a normal pattern of behaviour and not to be accepted in their life?

Best wishes to you for the future!