To ask why The Asian Flu pandemic in 1968/69 didn't cause the world to shut down?

[Whatsthis1515]

I have been reading about the Asian Flu pandemic in 1968-69, which was also a novel virus, and was surprised to see that there wasn't a lock down etc. Over a million people died of it globally.

I can't help but wonder if the reason the world is in lockdown with covid 19 is because of the media/social media and the internet. It causes mass panic.

I am wondering what everyone else's thoughts are?

I am not a conspiracy theorist btw, but I am wondering why it's so different this time. Being a human being is risky, and I struggle to understand why we have reacted so differently this time and am genuinely interested in if it because of how freely we can access media to panic us and the governments world wide have had to react to that?

I think there was also a strain of flu in 2004 where 17,000 in the UK died. I wasn't even aware of it at the time, yet that's a huge number of people.

It’s also worth noting that Sweden have a significantly lower population density than the U.K. What is necessary here might not have been necessary there.

Stockholm’s population density is greater than London’s.

It is very comparable

very uncommon view here where anyone wanting anything less than 2yrs locked in til a vaccine appears, is a murdering monster. The media have had a field day and it shows.

@Madein1995, this is such an exaggeration and distortion of what people are saying. Those of us who support a lockdown not happening immediately aren’t calling for a lockdown for many more months or your hyperbolic 2 year figure. I support the govt saying we need to wait just a few more weeks before easing lockdown to get the numbers down further and get good testing, tracing and quarantining capacity in place so we don’t have a second peak within weeks. It’s clear the govt are putting in place gradual easing of lockdown measures by end of May. Italy and Spain slowly starting easing of measures in coming weeks and we are 2 or 3 weeks behind them.

We value human life more now

I don't think we value human life more - but we have got much less used to people - except the very old - dying.

Even 50 years ago a lot more babies and mothers died during or shortly after birth; many diseases still left people dead or disabled; there was an acceptance that sometimes, awful things happened and that was they way it was. People died in accidents at work and in general that are now greatly reduced due to legislation (eg Safety at Work Acts; seatbelt legislation etc).

Nowadays, medical science has succeeded in prolonging life to such a degree that it comes as a great shock to us when younger people die. We don't want to accept that we are all mortal. It shouldn't happen.

I remember my mother having really bad flu in 68 (or possibly 69). I also remember that a lot of services/industries and schools were affected because so many employees were off sick at the same time. My father didn't get it (rather amazing seeing he was sleeping next to someone very ill!) but I remember him ending up with a huge work load, and moaning about it, as so many people in his office were off sick.

@Madein1995 that’s true, we can’t lockdown forever and will need to go outside eventually, this will need to be carefully monitored and controlled. I also think death rates, though important, aren’t the only issue, there is also the numbers incapacitated (temporarily) and how long for. It would be interesting to see how the 1968 flu compares to covid in that regard particularly for health workers (if a large percentage of health workers are out of action at the same time for many weeks we would be in big big trouble at any time, let alone during a pandemic)

Although I also think the people taking about the reduced rates of travel in 1968 might be missing something - less people were going on holiday abroad then but large numbers (of Americans and Australians if not British) were traveling back and forth to Asia just not on holiday...

Agree. This is an interesting post.

Ahhh cross posted with long eared bat who partly answered my question

The media is absolutely horrendous for scaremongering. Have you noticed that the ONLY news in the last 4-5 weeks has been how many deaths there has been in this country? Of course you have

In the last week I've only seen the death toll mentioned twice. This is because it's now coming down. They don't want us to know, it's not good news. It doesn't sell. They just want to scare us and so far they've done a bloody good job. Panic buying is down to the media

Someone mentioned Sweden - it's really very interesting as they seem to be following the same curve as is with infections. I know they have done social distancing and lots of people work from home, but they have avoided full lockdown without massively different results.

They have very different results to other Scandinavian countries. Anyway ,they haven't just done social distancing . Universities and high schools are shut for example. They have a much lower population density than us with a high number of people living in single households so despite the lack of lockdown the spread of infection will inevitably be slower than here.

In the last week I've only seen the death toll mentioned twice. This is because it's now coming down. They don't want us to know, it's not good news. It doesn't sell. They just want to scare us and so far they've done a bloody good job. Panic buying is down to the media

Seriously? The lower death toll is mentioned continually.

Nowadays, medical science has succeeded in prolonging life to such a degree that it comes as a great shock to us when younger people die. We don't want to accept that we are all mortal. It shouldn't happen.

We were actually around 50 years ago? People were just as upset as they are now the young person died. It wasn't "accepted" at all.

Mrpumblehook

Sweden’s population is not spread evenly throughout the country, they mainly live in towns and cities where the population density is similar to the uk.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Stockholm’s population density is higher than London’s.

Swedish high schools are also open

The ‘68 flu had a much lower fatality rate than Covid-19.
Also as people have mentioned, there was far less movement of people. I was a tiny child then. There is a picture of me that Winter, you can see some way down the road we lived on. Not a single car, parked or moving.
There were barely any motorways, cars were slower anyway, and getting anywhere took some time, so people didn’t travel as far, and families were generally less spread out. So there was a slower, more gradual spread of the virus around the country.
Part of the reason for the Spanish flu being so terrible was that it spread fairly quickly with the huge movement of people at the end of the war.
CV is particularly dangerous as it is extremely contagious, and people can spread it before being symptomatic, and so very large numbers of people can be seriously ill at the same time. No health service can cope with a huge , sudden influx of patients needing intensive care.
Also this really is a novel virus, unlike flu, where some people have resistance from other influenzas. So we really are in the dark about long term effects, best treatments etc etc.

@MH1111The stats I have seen always show Stockholm population density is lower than London .The older children aren't at school are they?

Also they couldn’t work remotely in the way many of us can. The internet has massively helped to keep people safe and sane.

Actually, I DO remember the flu pandemic of 1968/9. I am recently retired, but was at school at the time, year 10 or 11.
I remember a girl, who normally did not particulalrly like me, and had avoided me in previous years, hanging out with me and a friend. I remember wondering why this was and realising all her usual friends were off with flu. I considered saying something, but then realised I did not need to. There was no point. Looking back, I see this showed a bit of maturity. I have never forgotten it.
I did not get the flu, and the school remained open, as did all schools and shops. As far as we were concerned it was flu going around.
Looking it up on the internet, it is estimated that around 30,000 people in the UK died of flu during that outbreak.

However, I have completely forgotten about the 1989 flu pandemic. Married with children, it did not seem to be something I noticed. My brother's children were badly affected, though, with a niece developing encephalitis as a result. Google, says about 25,000 people in the UK died that year. Obviously, I remember my niece being ill, but did not relaise it was a serious flu outbreak. Neither myself nor my children were affected (as far as I remember).

Schools remained open, as did all other activities.

Also- obesity rates are much much higher now than they were 50 years ago- a key factor in the covid 19 death rate.

Corona is very contagious. The mortality rate of MERS was literally 10x that of Covid but it didn’t spread as much.

@rvby

The world today is the best it has ever been in terms of quality of life, access to healthcare, human rights, etc. etc., by any measure at all.

Really, I think you need to take a good look at just what is happening around the world. That may be the case where you live, but please don't speak for "the world".

In my country people cared enough in the 1940s to close schools because of a polio epidemic.

We value human life more now

What utter rubbush!!!!!!!!!!!! The feeling of superiority demonstrated by many posters on here is mind-blowing.

Well said!

@MH1111

What figures make you think Sweden’s corona strategy is worse than the uk’s approach?

I wasn't comparing them to the UK, I just don't think they are doing as wonderfully well as some people seem to think they are.

So. Which would you prefer op - a million deaths or a global response?

The world is largely getting better, if only slowly. I was reading the other day how the proportion of Africans living in abject poverty has massively reduced over the past few decades. Obviously many countries are nowhere close to experiencing the privilege we do in the west though.