Will my narcissist father be granted access to DD?

[Orphlids]

Hello, everyone. A few days ago, I posted on here to ask advice about my father refusing to respect the boundaries I set in place with regards to my daughter. Here is a link to the original post: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3896898-Father-ignoring-my-instructions-re-his-granddaughter?pg=1

The vast majority of the respondents said I should go NC with my father, and no longer allow him to see my child. I agree. Now, I have got myself in a right old state, wondering if he applies to court, if he will be awarded access. From what I can see online, courts tend to award access to grandparents, as they understand the importance and benefits of a grandparent in the lives of children. Obviously, I would explain to any relevant parties all the circumstances, and how I was treated by my father growing up. But my father is extremely charming and I’m confident he would be able to convince people that his version of events was the truth.

My partner is in agreement with me that we should do damage limitation by ending contact now. The only stories I could see online about grandparents getting access was regarding separated parents where one parent denied access to the estranged in-laws.

I’m terrified to think he would be awarded access. If this were to happen, would he be allowed to see DD without my supervision? He has only ever seen her in my home while I have been there. Would he be allowed to involve his new wife, who I do not want around my daughter?

Has anyone experienced anything along these lines, and able to tell me of their experiences? I’d be so grateful.

I do not have the money to seek legal advice, should he pursue this through the courts.

I’m so sorry if I have posted this in the wrong section. I couldn’t figure out if there was a more suitable place.

Grandparents don't have automatic rights and actually have to get permission from a court to even apply for contact. It's only usually successful where the grandparent has had a pivotal caring role in the early years, eg been primary or live in secondary carer for the child and it would do damage to the child to just suddenly sever all contact.

I wouldn’t overthink it at this stage. Many families go non contact with parents and nothing comes of it. If he did go the legal route (unlikely) then it’ll cost him a lot and you nothing at the initial stage. You’d get a solicitors letter informing you of his intent (again costing you nothing). You can choose what to do if/when this happens

Until then try not to worry. Most grandparents cases are based on their son not being allowed contact, but feeling they shouldn’t be effected by his behaviour

It being your birth father the situation is very different and I can’t see a solicitor advising he would win such a case

Hi- not quite the same situation but my Exp’s parents were awarded contact with my child. I was told this was because A) my ex was unable to have contact himself and this was the only way of maintaining the link with paternal family (not relevant in your situation) and B) the grandparents had previously had regular contact so a relationship was established (possibly relevant in your situation)

Unfortunately If he does seek formal contact then your best bet really is to seek legal advice. No-one here can advise or predict what a judge will decide.

@DontStandSoCloseToMe, thank you. Yes, I read that they must first appeal for the right to apply for contact. Your response (thank you so much for taking the time to reply) has calmed me down a little. I’m normally not an anxious person at all, but I just feel desperate. Thanks again.

Hi OP, I have read your other thread.
How regular was the conract between them?

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. I know I am being premature in thinking about this now, as it is such early days. And I know legal advice is certainly my best bet. I have no spare cash, while money is no object for him. Feels a bit like David and Goliath. I’m pregnant and hormonal too, which has tipped me over the edge, I think! Sincere gratitude to you all for your replies.

You are worrying ahead about twelve stages.

If he tries. If he gets permission to apply. If he applies. If he has the energy and attention for a Court case. If they think it even slightly has merit. If he has proof. If you don't have proof. If they award it. If he takes it up. If it's unsupervised.

I know it sounds mean but a coward dies a thousand times before their death. You are currently protecting your DD. Good job. If and when something else happens and it's worth worrying, worry then.

I just had a quasi judicial hearing with a charming and confident lawyer who thought he could scare me. He ended up not turning up because my evidence was better than his and he didn't want to get beaten in front of people. Charm doesn't win. Evidence wins. Make sure you collect that.

@ursuslemonade, he would come to see her for a few hours or a day once every five weeks or so, roughly.

@MrsTerryPratchett, thank you. I have screenshotted all the conversations where he ignores or tries to bypass my barriers. There’s not much other hard evidence I would be able to produce. My mother would be able to back up my story of how he treated me as a youngster, but surely that’s just our word against his? Ugh, I must take your advice and not waste my energy by worrying now!

In all honesty I don't think he'd have a leg to stand on, and as others have said, grandparents don't actually have any rights in this situation.

He's not regularly enough in her life to warrant carer status (which might have been an issue) so I think you'll be fine.

I wonder if there are any groups or organisations for people in your situation, who would better know the answers to this? If you post on the Stately Homes threads, there might be more people there who would have more accurate advice.

But as has been said, you're borrowing trouble ahead of time.

So there is:

1. Screenshots
2. Your mother's evidence
3. Your evidence
4. Your partner's evidence

That's a lot. But again, breathe and worry when you actually have to.

Thank you, everyone, for your kind and sensible words. I am going to try to get some sleep now, but will return to the thread tomorrow. Thanks again!

I wouldn’t worry yet tbh. And I highly doubt if he even took it to court that he would get access.

Start collecting evidence of his ridiculous behavior. I doubt you will actually need it but it'll surely give you peace of mind.

Totally agree with what @MrsTerryPratchett has said above...

I remember reading your first thread and thinking how dreadful and toxic your father sounds, you are definitely doing the right thing in stopping his contact with DD. Please don't let this worry change your mind about doing that. I cant imagine for one minute he would ever be granted access to DD againsy your wishes.

Post in Legal if you're still worried. There are some very knowledgeable posters there.

I remember your other thread OP. I've seen this with a friend and like other posters it was only permitted to ensure a relationship with the paternal family. Has he given you any indication that he'll pursue this further to get contact?

OP, I’m sorry you’re so stressed by this - understandably so! Plenty of good advice above, but one thing:

Feels a bit like David and Goliath.

Don’t forget - David won against Goliath.

Best of luck to you.

Hello OP, my story is similar to yours and I went NC with my dad over two years ago. My DC were slightly older than yours and I wished I had done it earlier as i found it hard to explain things to them, however they trust me and are absolutely fine. So please know you are doing the right thing and the earlier the better!

I was also terrified of my father trying to get access (I have an awful aunt who would no doubt push him to try) but he never did.

I think when you’ve spent your whole life viewing a narcissist’s actions from a front row seat you know exactly what nasty things they are capable of. The lengths they will go to in order to get their way. So I think you are understandably concerned and on your guard, but I can’t see that a day every five weeks or so is enough contact for him to be awarded formal access.

If you’re on FB there is a group called Necessary Family Estrangement, it’s a great group and people on there have been through situations where estranged GPs have tried for access through legal channels. You’ll get support on there.

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. Wonderful to have such measured thoughts to counteract mine.

@Impropriety, thanks you so much. I have requested to join the group. I was hoping to find exactly that sort of thing. And thank you for telling me of your own experience.