Are smaller class sizes/intakes always better?

[changeofheart1234567]

I’m considering private for secondary. Local comp is enormous. Lockdown has shown its provision to be close to zero. Not impressed. Local private is excellent but only has between 60-70 children in each year group, so 30-35 of each gender.

What I’ve always loved about comps is their size, and the increased likelihood of finding more people like you there. Aside from the academics (it’s now become very clear that you do, indeed, get what you pay for), does anyone have a view on this having sent their kids to a smaller private school? How do friendships work when you only have that small pool to choose from? Or is that irrelevant since you just pick from your available pond? Especially when about two thirds have been there since reception and you’re going knowing no one.

I’m torn between the obvious academic/pastoral benefits of a small fee paying school versus plunging my children into a social environment which might be more difficult. I think that side of education is just as important as academics for overall well being.

AIBU to think there’s more chance of finding ‘friends who fit’ in a bigger pool?

Also a bigger chance of there being complete dickheads in the yeaR group

With more kids at comp or fewer kids in private @araiwa?

I would say that no, small year groups aren't better. You are stuck with the same people with no chance to change and widen your friendship groups. Everyone knows everything.

Can't comment on private-v-state argument though.

Also check the GCSE options provisions.
You may find that a comp gives more options.
That might not matter if you (& your DC) want your DC to do standard academics, but may matter more if you want more flexible options.

Depends what you are teaching but a large year group - so wider choice of friends and more opportunity for exchange of ideas but small sub-groups and teaching groups for opportunity to work in teams and for learning specific sunjects. That would be perfect.

I teach at an indie and have noticed that there are more friendships formed across year groups. Because of the extracurricular provision, the drama/music/rugby/hockey kids meet other kids with common interests in those groups.

Really good point teen, i hadn't even thought of that.

@MrSheenandMe are you saying that a big school with private school class sizes is ideal? So a massive private school? Not sure there even are any of those around.

In the case you are asking about I would probably pick the private school - and move the child if it really didn't work out. BUT focus on opportunities for friends outside school to widen the pool. (Sports, drama, music, church, volunteer group - whatever works for them)

Master, do you mean friendships with the years above and below?

Sorry yes - I was also talking "in an ideal world" both as a teacher (not kids) and a parent.

Thanks Mr - i would definitely keep up the extra curriculars with existing friends.

Mr are you a teacher in state or private and do you mind me asking where you send your children?

My DC have been in a range of schools due to us having moved a lot. They have been in both state and private and class sizes ranging from 12-32.

My youngest two (twins) are currently in a class of 32 and yes, it’s too many. In their last school they were in a class of 24. However, I would still pick their current school every day of the week because as a school it is much better - better ethos, better discipline, better pastoral care. I don’t think class size alone is an indicator of how good a school is.

My older two are both in secondary - different secondaries. One is in a mixed school with about 200 per year group and the other is in a single sex school with 120 per year group. Both schools keep classes to 25 or less in junior school. (8 form classes in the larger school and 5 in the smaller school.) Both schools are excellent but very different. They are both voluntary grammars (we’re in NI) and have excellent pastoral care and a real sense of family within the schools. They are both excellent on behaviour and outstanding on academic achievement, but that’s where the similarities end - they feel like very different schools. The fact is that the larger, busier school is better for my eldest, whereas the smaller school is better for my younger one.

My eldest was previously in another state secondary (before we moved) - same size as his current school but a world apart - not because of class sizes but just because it was a shit school with a diabolical behaviour record, low academic achievement and just generally a “don’t care” attitude in the school.

The private school that my DC went to was wonderful in many ways and we loved it, but it wasn’t perfect. My middle DD had some tricky girls in her year, all pushed along by tricky mothers. It made life a little unpleasant at times and I know some of the issues are still rumbling on now. She has a couple of very good friends from that school, but only a couple. My eldest had more of a mixed bag in their year - some over entitled kids and parents but they were in the minority and there was more of a range. my DC was more easily able to just ignore the troublemakers and form other friendships of which there were many.

On the downside, the smaller school meant that there was less provision of subjects as there wasn’t the take up levels needed to offer the full range. It was definitely more limited in that way and definitely didn’t encourage individualism - there was one way of doing things and that was it. It was a great school, but not perfect and if I could choose now I wouldn’t give up their current schools for it.

Slightly different circs, but dd1 got offered a reception place at a failing school that only had 16 in the class (capacity for 30) and i was really worried about the limited peer group thing if she didn’t “click” with any of them.

As it turned out, we got offered our preferred school the day before term started and she never went, but i heard from a friend that did that it was genuinely a problem and a small group made the class quite unpleasant to be in - she ended up moving her dd after 3 weeks. That school had a problematic local intake which tipped the balance, but the risk would be higher with any small class size i should think.

FWIW, When i was busy panicking about our choices, i reminded myself that i went to the local comp with 35 per class and had a fine time, had loads of close friends, and went to Cambridge. I think as parents we over think now there is nominally “choice”.

Really good points thank you. Especially about over thinking choice.

The research I read comparing schools internationally said that at secondary age class size wasn’t a major factor for academic results. Teacher quality and ethos was much more important.

Social side is different though.

changeofheart - I have been teaching and training adults and teens for many years. (Business and HE. No discipline problems but group dynamics and outcome are important. Actually learning, taking stuff in, reusing, applying knowledge are key. Learning how to work with others, having fun - all crucial.)

My DC went to a mix of state (primary) and private. DC2 to a largeish private school. DC2 to a tiny private school for several years and then a small but lovely state secondary for A levels.

Different kids.

Yes. Friendships form with the years above and below, because they meet at rugby training or choral practice etc.

That’s interesting. My children are very different but if he loathed to send one to state (she would thrive there) and one to private. I know families who have made similar choices and the children have ended up resentful - whether justified or not it’s a real risk.

Should you give a child the choice or are they simply too young and prone to choose friendships over all else? I chose state because I wanted to be with my friends. I wouldn’t have contemplated anything new and, at 10 going on 11, couldn’t have made an educated choice.