Nurseries back before schools?

[Russell19]

A friend of mine keeps saying nurseries and early years will be the first to go back.

AIBU in thinking this can't be right?!

Why would the smallest people who have no idea about social distancing and share saliva, toys etc. all the time be the first to go back? I get childcare problems but if we are looking at it from a health perspective surely older children would be best to go back first?

CarrieBlue no I wont be volunteering as I work full-time so unless the school wants to open in the evening I wont be much use to them. I'm just giving the example of our ward - the one next door has no COVID19 deaths. Our school had the children washing their hands every hour prior to lockdown. The teachers are there now looking after children without PPE for key workers and I'm very grateful they are doing this.

Crowded public transport especially in London will be an issue and I'd assume the government would encourage people to work from home after the schools go back. Also more flexible working times.

Crowded transport will be a problem in many places. 2 thirds of the kids at my child's high school use public transport to get to school and we are in the north so not just London.

It depends on whether they have the staff available to keep legal ratios. There will be huge staff shortages due to shielding, people not willing to risk their lives for such low pay etc. Also unions will be pushing for safe work environments, if social distancing is impossible they won't want members going to work.

Looking after a handful of children has already proved that social distancing is impossible in schools. Add in an extra 1000 or so and adequate PPE is the minimum to demand.
1500 children washing their hands every hour will mean hardly any time for teaching.

The decision to reopen schools and nurseries will not be influenced by safety because it isnt safe. But the economy is more important so we have to stop pretending it is anything else.

Well the economy is important otherwise how do we pay for the PPE and the teachers?
Social distancing will be important at schools (I think). And we will just have to suck that up to some extent. We cannot hide under a stone until a vaccine is found.
Organising stuff will be easier in smaller schools with less children. Our son's old school had 65 children so you could easily split the class into 2. Most families have atleast 1 stay at home parent and 50% of the kids walk and 50% drive (we have no public transport). So I expect it will be on a school by school basis. Totally different if you are running a school with over 1000 kids and most come on public transport.. But how are they solving this in Europe? I think WHO has published guidelines as well.

No way can you have social distancing and schools opening. It has to be one or the other imo

Agree.

Everyone says social distancing is impossible in nurseries- which it is- but I think it’s impossible in any school setting.
At some point childcare settings need to go back, at least nurseries are smaller in numbers so I say they should open first.

Isn't there some evidence that says the youngest children , under 10, don't spread it?

If true then nurseries could be safer than schools

If this happens it'll be becuase of the evidence they have so far that young children don't spread the virus (Although they can sometimes catch it).

It will be reception first as they have the most to lose from missing out on 6 months of education (the difference between reading by year 1 or not). Year 6 and 12 have learnt their curriculum already and will be the last to return (if they return at all)

@CarrieBlue

“You’re assuming it has anything to do with safety for children and their teachers/nursery workers. It’s all about getting people back to work and health measures are far down the list.”

I find the above an interesting point. I’ve seen it made generally across mumsnet in a few threads (not all same poster)

I agree to an extent - the economy will come first, we have a Tory government. However, the health of working age people and the economy, go hand in hand. Sick people can’t work and sadly dead people can’t either.

Even if you want to be really harsh, like a lot of posters, and say “suck it up childcare/ teachers” that doesn’t help, if schools go back and those workers get sick. The school can’t run itself.

Schools will go back. No one knows when, but it has to be planned so that it can have a degree of success. There’s no point opening for a short period, but then slowly closing due to lack of staff.

I’ve seen a point about using supply staff who desperately need work - they will have the capacity to get sick too.

I think / my hope is nurseries and primary schools will return after half term (possibly with max class size of 15 so some children may be part-time) and then senior schools and week or two later. I believe this would be a fair solution. Leaving children at home / out of education for nearly 6 months is too long.

Even if they go back after half term it will only be for 5 weeks and then it will be the 6 week summer holiday so it will only be 'restpite' for children and families.

There has to be a balance though. It’s all very well to say that we care more about the economy but the economy is important,and without it many of thos nurseries will go out of business permanently and what would that mean for those parents who are then told they can no longer work from home?

Staying in full lockdown until a vaccine is created isn’t reasonable or realistic and what happens if a vaccine isn’t possible?

As an aside, I thought it interesting last week that nurseries and childminders who have insisted parents pay them even when they’re closed are actually breaking the law. I’ve seen many a thread on here talking about how their nursery/CM have insisted they continue to be paid.

@thegreenlight

You really don’t know that. Sadly, I think the children’s academic issues will be way down the list. It will need to be the best way to ensure a balance between (points not in order of importance);

• opening schools in a way that it’s successful I.e they open and have the capacity to stay open
• ensuring a large proportion of teachers / childcarers don’t go on the sick with Covid within 2 weeks (linked to point above)
• the economy and childcare

Consider also that there are other professions other than teachers who have had to carry on like prison officers. We haven't closed all the prisons for 6 months. What about prison staff? Some of them will also have underlying health issues and be self isolating so the prison officers remaining are having to work extra shifts. I suspect they dont have extra PPE. No one is talking about prison officers on the news..

I'm a childminder and am also wondering this! We were closed with the schools so all lumped together. But depending on how soon it is we may well open earlier as there's the summer hols to consider for schools.
For me personally I am scared about opening again and do not want to be the first sector to try out and see what happens once lockdown is reduced iyswim? I want to reopen but I dont want to go from nothing to a house full. And I know parents will want to send their kids the second we can open regardless of whether they are at work or not which is understandable but I'm going to have to work out a plan to make it safe.

One of the things I've found really sad about the lockdown is how many people I've seen complaining about looking after their own children. People moaning that they have their kids all day every day and don't get a break. People saying it's breaking them and they can't cope. (I'm talking about people who have a safe place to live with a garden and financial security, and who aren't working full time from home. I can understand how it must get fractious if you're trying to work) People seem desperate to get rid of their kids back to nursery/preschool/school.
I find this so sad. I've loved having all the extra time with my kid, it's felt like a total bonus.
When did people stop knowing how to look after their own kids?
My friend who is childless is really upset by all the people constantly moaning about having to be with their kids 24/7
Its a mystery to me why people aren't more grateful for any extra time spent with their children.

@thegreenlight I disagree. Year 11 and 13 wont be back. Year 12 will have to go back early on along with year 10 because they are half way through gcses and alevels. It will be really difficult if year 6 are sent back with no transition at all in to year 7, they are also more likely to be able to wah their hands and wear masks than eyfs children.

My sons nursery has been open since Monday

Beebie2
I’m primary SLT and had to complete a transition risk questionnaire for the government. It was mooted on the attached paperwork that reception would go back first so not definite but more official than a simple guess.

@thegreenlight

That may be true, but with all due respect it’s unlikely to be anything to do with academia or fairness. It will be more related to childcare and the economy.

I’ve also seen info from the NEU, who think social distancing children in the early years is ridiculous 🤷‍♀️

MotherofDinosaurs People saying it's breaking them and they can't cope. (I'm talking about people who have a safe place to live with a garden and financial security, and who aren't working full time from home. I can understand how it must get fractious if you're trying to work)
Exactly this - try working full time at the same time. I am 'teaching' our youngest english 8-9am then I work til 12 then I make the kids lunch and do more english with my son, then I work til 5pm then try to get the kids out for exercise, have tea, tidy up etc. By the time they are in bed and the house is tidy its 10pm. I watch TV for an hour and go to bed.
I feel sad to say it but where is the enjoyment in this? Our son is bright but lazy so you have to hover over him relentlessly otherwise he does nothing. At the weekends I am cleaning and gardening.
So much for time for baking with children etc... Just a fantasy if you work full-time.. some of my colleagues are still working at midnight.