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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think a lot of people are going to look for any excuse not to go back into work when restrictions start to be lifted?

316 replies

wakeupitsabeautifulmorning · 01/05/2020 11:40

Already seeing it on a few threads this morning. I think a lot of people have quite enjoyed being off work and will try their best not to rush back. Or am I being sceptical?

OP posts:
PumpkinPie2016 · 01/05/2020 14:40

I'm a teacher and not enjoying wfh. Paperwork and curriculum planning is ok but trying to teach on Microsoft teams is challenging! Plus, I miss the interaction with the pupils and my colleagues.

I am lucky to have DH and DS at home but I miss other conversations. I also find that everything takes far longer at home because my son is only 6 and so obviously needs attention,plus, it's too tempting to do other things.

I don't catch public transport though. I live in the North and travelled to central London in Dec for a conference. The tube was hideous -I would not want to be on it during this pandemic!

While a minority of people will probably be disappointed with going back to work, I think most people will actually be quite pleased.

GoodbyeRosie · 01/05/2020 14:41

I can only do a third of my job at home, and that's quite useful as we have to home school our daughter.

I think my partner has realised going to the office to do her job with colleagues is probably optional, and not 100% necessary.

I will certainly be looking for a job where I can WFH one day a week when things start getting back to normal..lockdown has certainly shown that there's more to life than the 9-5 grind.

puffinandkoala · 01/05/2020 14:44

what the client wants the client gets

the client doesn't care where the work is done as long as it's done to the requisite standard and within the required timeframe. In most cases it genuinely doesn't matter if you are in an office, at home, up a mountain or on a beach.

MrsJBaptiste · 01/05/2020 14:47

Are you joking? I cannot wait to get back into the office.

Im sick of hot desking round the house as the kids are in and out of the kitchen. I want to wear nice clothes that people will actually see. I'm now missing that hour in the car on the commute to work (God, I can't wait to drive again) and I'm always feezing even though our house is a warm house!

DecadentDeity · 01/05/2020 14:52

In most cases it genuinely doesn't matter if you are in an office, at home, up a mountain or on a beach. You said it - in most cases! Working from home has been clunky for us - in our industry we travel to client sites, we need everyone in a room sharing ideas, it's the best way to find solutions - we can Zoom but it doesn't work as well...it'll have to do for now but when lockdown is lifted we will return to the Office, not everyday but we will return.

puffinandkoala · 01/05/2020 14:53

You do know that those furloughed had no hand in why and no choice

Some employers asked for volunteers.

Where often I would be sat staring into space watching the clock waiting til the clock strikes 5 so I can go

Oh yes this. Now you can go off and do something useful while keeping an eye on emails. I am doing some distance learning so I do that and if an email comes in work I deal with it and then go back to my course (or here :) )

DecadentDeity · 01/05/2020 14:55

the client doesn't care where the work is done The client cares enough - to pay for flights, taxis, ubers, trains, lunches and nice hotels...I doubt they'd pay all our expenses if they weren't bothered where the work was done.

merrymouse · 01/05/2020 14:57

No because people will be desperate to keep their jobs.

HeIenaDove · 01/05/2020 15:01

One of the best articles ive seen yet.

d
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Everyone agrees we’re in lockdown. Coronavirus has “shut down the whole economy”, the BBC’s Coronavirus Newscast told us last week.

The BBC’s World at One contrasts the situation in the UK, with that of a “different approach” in Sweden, where “not all businesses have closed”. The only debate now is between the hawks and doves on when we allow “a partial reopening of businesses”, the national broadcaster’s daily news email told me on Monday.

Meanwhile Britain seems headed towards the worst death rate in Europe.

Undoubtedly part of the reason for this is that we moved too late to enforce a “lockdown”.

But the other reason is that we don’t actually have a lockdown. The government has allowed people to continue to go to work – and allowed bosses to make people continue to go to work – far more than we’re being led to believe, and far more than most of the media seem to have noticed.

And as openDemocracy has just exposed, across large sections of the economy, many workers in ‘non essential’ jobs are being forced to show up to potentially dangerous workplaces. And some have already got sick. And some have already died.

“Stay home”, Boris Johnson told us when he announced the lockdown a month ago. Only travel to work “where this is absolutely necessary and cannot be done from home.”

Whose rules?
But who defines what’s “absolutely necessary”? Unless you work for a non-essential shop or leisure facility (that was closed by order on 23rd March) the answer is always, “your boss”.

Offices, factories, warehouses and (in England) construction sites may all remain open. None have been designated as ‘non-essential’. It’s also been left entirely up to the bosses to decide whether it’s “possible” to do a job from home, and whether to take the government cash to furlough some or all of their workers. Or whether it’s “absolutely necessary” for some or all of its workers to come in. Call centre workers and numerous other groups of workers, meanwhile, have been labelled “key workers” at the stroke of a ministerial pen, irrespective of what they are actually doing – leading to reports of deaths from suspected COVID-19.

It’s not even really accurate to talk about ‘loopholes’ that employers are exploiting. More like a legal void, that the government hopes the media class won’t notice. The baristas and bookshops aren’t there, and who really knows anyone who works in a call centre, factory, or warehouse? When Patrick Vallance’s slides at last Thursday’s Covid press conference revealed that 49% of those still working, are working from home, no-one piped up on Zoom to ask where the other 51% were, or why the government’s official survey hadn’t asked that question.

Earlier this week, an academic at Strathclyde university gave me advance sight of a major survey he’s done of call centre workers. As my colleague and I reported yesterday, it makes for harrowing reading. Many, particularly low paid, workers are still being made to go to work. And it’s not only call centres. There are cleaners, security guards, office staff, construction and warehouse workers.

As the survey showed, many are deeply worried about catching coronavirus either at work or on their journey in. Some are particularly concerned as they, or members of their households, are classed as “vulnerable”, and advised to be particularly careful to maintain social distancing, or even one of the 1.5 million classed as “extremely vulnerable” and instructed to “self-shield” entirely for 12 weeks.

But the government has given them little or no additional protection from unscrupulous employers. I called the Cabinet Office, Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS), Department of Work and Pensions, and Ministry of Justice, to try to get to the bottom of this matter. What legal sanctions were there against employers who threatened to withhold all pay, or even sack, non-essential employees, if they asked not to come in because of concerns about catching the virus?

Such bosses "won’t exactly be breaking a law”, a BEIS spokesperson told me. “There’s nothing [employees] can prosecute people with, but you can point to guidance.”

Even if someone in the employee's household was defined as “vulnerable”, or “extremely vulnerable”?

There were no new legal protections, the spokesperson confirmed. But workers could go to their union, to Citizens Advice, or to the conciliation service, ACAS, he suggested. “There’s a lot of that going on”.

What if a worker themselves were classified as “vulnerable” or “extremely vulnerable”?

Even here, the BEIS spokesperson offered little reassurance. “There are so many extenuating circumstances in these things.”

Invisible rights
In fact, although neither BEIS nor any of the other departments I spoke to were prepared to tell me, even when I prompted them by asking about health and safety law, there is some legal protection for employees in these kinds of situations. Under existing health and safety legislation, employees who believe their health or indeed that of their family would be put in imminent and serious danger may leave, or refuse to attend the workplace. And employment lawyers like Stuart Brittenden, writing on the website of the Institute of Employment Rights, suggests that if as a result of leaving, or refusing to attend under these current circumstances, someone was dismissed, or had their pay withheld, they’d have a decent chance of success at an Employment Tribunal.

The trouble is, even if employees know about these rights, how many will dare exercise them, when any legal remedy might take months or even years of fighting for, and they could face being sacked and thrown into the inadequate safety net in the meantime? Not to mention those who have looser employment relationships that mean they don’t have these rights at all? Unions are trying to help, of course – but are hobbled by some of the most restrictive anti-union laws in the developed world.

No new laws
And it gets worse. In England, unlike in Scotland and Wales, the government has not even introduced any new legal sanctions if offices, call centres, factories, construction sites, warehouses, and so on, don’t enable social distancing in the workplace. English bosses are expected to “make every effort to comply” with social distancing, but not legally mandated to do anything. Indeed, as “lockdown” progresses, the non-binding guidance has been watered down, so that for example bosses who can’t enable construction workers to stay 2 metres apart are advised to set them to work “side to side” or “back to back” instead. If even that’s not possible, they’re asked to limit close face to face working to 15 minutes.

The Opposition appear to have dropped the demand by then shadow employment minister Rachael Maskell on 31st March for “strict and enforceable closure” of non-essential workplaces, but continue to call for the current guidance around safety at work to be “strictly implemented and enforced” with the help of trade unions.

Meanwhile, the right wing hawks, in particular, seem to have discovered a new concern about the abuse, exclusion and poor conditions that are the reality of many people’s home lives – and are invoking it as a reason to end the lockdown. But the vulnerability and exploitation that is the reality of many people’s working lives is given scant attention.

The media debate when people will feel ready to “decide” to “return” to work, and the Ministry of Justice tells me that people can simply “follow the guidance on the website” to “negotiate with their employers” if there’s any disagreement on that matter. There seems to be a fond fantasy of a world where there’s no such thing as unequal power relations. A world where we haven’t endured 40 years of attacks on workers' rights, trade unions and social security.

The key worker con
And if the financial pressures on many workers weren’t bad enough, the government has also given employers some handy moral pressure to add into the mix.

The terms “key workers”, “critical workers” and “essential workers” are being thrown around like confetti, workers report – though there’s absolutely no legal basis to use these terms to compel people to come to work. At least no legal basis that the four relevant government department press offices could tell me about when I asked them.

As openDemocracy reported yesterday, this has caused particular anger amongst many such workers. “I do low value personal injury and property damage claims - how could I possibly be an essential worker?! Seems like they are exploiting the system, I am disgusted” was typical of the responses we have seen.

BEIS confirmed that the reference to “key workers” that employers were relying on, was the non-binding, rushed guidance from the Cabinet Office about whose children could keep going to school, and which appears to include the entire financial and telecoms sectors, and many others. Announcing this list as the basis for “key worker” testing, government last week briefed that there were 10 million workers who’d been designated as “essential”, “key workers”, which in reality is between half and a third of all workers.

A BEIS spokesperson told openDemocracy, “I imagine that there will be a number of legal cases when this is all over about whether a job was essential or if it was right for a company to remain open.”

But “when this is all over” will be too late for the workers currently terrified of bosses “playing Russian Roulette with our lives”, the workers who are already sick, and the workers who’ve already died.

“Easing” the lockdown?
And there’s more to come. Whilst firms have applied to furlough 3.2 million people according to figures released last week, some employers seem to be interpreting the 3 week minimum as a maximum, and are now demanding workers return.

One accountant told us:

“They have literally given us the minimum three weeks per the government scheme. There was no discussion or consultation. I did express my worries but that was ignored.” She’s since had a text telling her “My furlough is cancelled. I’m expected back in the office next week….”

“I have asthma and have been hospitalised twice in the last few years with pneumonia…If I get any kind of chest or lung infection, I am always very ill. I also have a tremor condition similar to Parkinsons which is made much worse by stress…My bosses [are] ignoring my concerns and health issues, and ignoring the fact I could easily work from home… There’s no company sick pay during the pandemic…I can't see any way out of it right now…”

Is this what “getting Britain back on her feet” looks like?

www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/dont-buy-the-lockdown-lie-this-is-a-government-of-business-as-usual/

MintyMabel · 01/05/2020 15:05

That's alright, I think we can live with you not working for us - you come across rather aggressively...that wouldn't go down well with the clients either

Just as well I have clients who happy with what I do and don't expect me to risk my staff to do it. Rather stand up for what i believe than be a wet blanket who is incapable of standing up for what is right. Thankfully most clients and businesses respect that as a happy and healthy workforce is what makes a business succeed.

FairIsleViking · 01/05/2020 15:07

I don't mind being in the office so much. It's the commute I loathe and have no desire whatsoever to go back to on a regular basis. No way am I returning to a long, expensive, frustrating and potentially unhealthy trek across London on bus, train and tube, 5 days a week.

There will be days I need to be in, of course, but if I don't, I won't. Most of my colleagues feel the same way.

MarshaBradyo · 01/05/2020 15:09

Clients don’t usually mind if the worker is in the office or wfh. Decadent what do they think they are missing out on?

DecadentDeity · 01/05/2020 15:09

Just as well I have clients who happy with what I do and don't expect me to risk my staff to do it. Rather stand up for what i believe than be a wet blanket who is incapable of standing up for what is right. Thankfully most clients and businesses respect that as a happy and healthy workforce is what makes a business succeed. Good for you!😎

DecadentDeity · 01/05/2020 15:17

@MarshaBradyo clients need you to work along side their staff...two maybe three teams from different companies, who need to get to know each other quickly and pull together, it's complicated enough when everyone's in the same place, but while people are working from home we are finding that the project is not moving quickly enough.

ShakespearesSisters · 01/05/2020 15:19

I'm furloughed, no possibility of what I do being done at home and not safe to be open our practice in the capacity it once was. Currently skeleton staff (chosen as they live by themselves or with a non shielding adult) for emergencies only. I cannot wait to get back to work for adult company once it is safe to do so. As much as I love my kids, going back to work will be like a holiday!

HerRoyalNotness · 01/05/2020 15:20

I don’t have to worry as I was laid off. But I would have dreaded having the commute again. It makes the hours out of the house too long, it worked out to be 11hrs. DHs company will be staging the return and doing week in office then week at home so only half the workforce are at the office at one time. They’ve laid off over 50% in his office as well so it will be fairly empty and everyone drives in. Not sure how long they’ll do that for. From what I’ve seen he gets a lot more done WFH and it’s the type of business that you could do it full time. With maybe one day a week at the office

MarshaBradyo · 01/05/2020 15:24

Makes sense Decadent

imsooverthisdrama · 01/05/2020 15:30

Joking aren't you I'll be running there .

NikeDeLaSwoosh · 01/05/2020 15:37

COVID can kill and a fit and healthy person who has never taken risks in a matter of weeks

This is a spectacularly unlikely outcome though - across all age ranges, 75% of people in hospital with Covid 19 are overweight and the overwhelming majority of them are over 65.

If you are fit and healthy (which obviously includes being of normal BMI), and of working age, you are very, very unlikely to suffer badly from a Covid 19 infection.

CarolefeckinBaskin · 01/05/2020 15:47

I'm furloughed on full pay and can't work from home.
I can't wait to get back!
Using public transport worries me a lot.
I'm concerned about how my employers will keep us safe as my line of work is viewed similar to pubs etc as a gathering place, a large % of regulars like to stay for hours so I'm unsure how they're going to enforce distancing etc...
Also staffing, we work alone for small amounts of the day but there will be 2 staff needed for a large part of the day - many of our shops have small behind the counter area's so distancing again will be a problem.

Cam2020 · 01/05/2020 15:53

Situations like this make people reassess their priorities and many people will be realising how miserable their jobs make them! Others will be skipping back, realising how much they enjoy their job, like their colleagues and need routine.

Personally, I'd like to do a couple of days from home and maybe leave work an hour earlier to decrease my chances of catching the virus on my commute and spreading it to my terminally ill partner. People's circumstances are very different, I don't think you can put reluctance solely down to laziness, although I'm sure there will be a number of people who will try and take the piss.

Youngatheart00 · 01/05/2020 15:56

I want to go back. I miss the exhilaration of a Friday 4pm pub trip and a chance to wind down with friends and colleagues after a week of hard work. God knows when that will happen again (the pub or the hard work 🤣)

RubyDreamsOfRainbows · 01/05/2020 16:10

It's going to be hard, psychologically, for many people who have adapted to a lockdown way of life.

Some people will feel unsafe and fearful in the company of others again. Time for the brave to be supportive rather than belittling.

ssd · 01/05/2020 16:10

@LilacTree1, that's worrying. If there's no vaccine, life will never be the same again.

DecadentDeity · 01/05/2020 16:15

I think people will learn to live with the risk, as we do with so many other risks in life before Covid - initially it will feel scary and overwhelming but then most healthy people will just get on with their lives again.