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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Step Mother and House Sale Proceeds

99 replies

NearlyAlwaysOnTime · 30/04/2020 19:38

So, a slightly complicated situation but I'll try to keep in brief.

4 years ago my DF passed away suddenly. He had been married to my step mother for about 2 years when he died. A trust had already been set up which granted SM a life interest in the family home and, upon her death the property would pass to my older sister.

SM very quickly decided she wanted to sell the family home and move away. She put the property on the market without any real consultation and accepted the first offer made which was significantly below the probate valuation. At the time, I decided that as she was grieving (we all were), that I would let her carry on. She made it very difficult as she went ahead with all of this without solicitors or the trustees knowledge. Part of the reason we reluctantly agreed was that she wanted to move back to where she was originally from and I felt for her in that respect as she would otherwise have been quite isolated.

After selling the family home she purchased a new property using the funds of the sale. She assured us that this was the perfect place and she would be happy there. Shortly afterwards she decided it needed to be extended.

She didn't consult the trustees or give us any input but she did email us saying that she was spending her money on the extension to make it a lovely place to live and she would never want it back etc.

Fast forward a couple of years and she wants the money back. She says she needs some cash, presumably having spent around £100k she was also left by DF.

Since springing this on us she has proceeded to push and push and has now sold the 2nd house and purchased a third.

All of the above is incredibly frustrating but bearable. Now we come to the AIBU section. After selling the second house and buying the 3rd there is £65k left over. She was initially trying to get all of that, but we've pointed out that some of the increase in value would have been due to inflation. This has gone on and on and the money still hasn't been split.

AIBU to use the email she sent saying she didn't expect any of the money back and/or to push for my sister and I to get a decent amount of inflation.

Thus far she is suggesting 2% p/a which is far below the stats for the area.

I can't decide if I'm being overly emotional and stubborn or if we really need to take a stand.

OP posts:
HeckyPeck · 30/04/2020 20:54

In response to that she emailed me and my sister saying that she was going to extend but it was so it would be a nice house for her and to "improve our investment" and ended by saying she would never want any of it back.

I missed that bit. In that case I would go back to the Trustees with the email and say you don’t agree to her having any of the money as per her email.

Then it’s up to them to decide.

Longwhiskers14 · 30/04/2020 20:55

If you have an email from her prior to do her doing the extension in which she explicitly states she has no intention of ever claiming the costs back you absolutely should hold her to it. Start taking the emotion out of your dealings with her, because she clearly does that when she lords it over you and your sister AND the Trust.

Original poster
NearlyAlwaysOnTime · 30/04/2020 20:56

Part of the issue is that despite it all I still care about her. She has very few friends and doesn't speak to many of her own family. We were close and even after everything she has done and the blatant lack of care for me- I still can't bring myself to take a really tough stance. I am sure I am too weak and I am sure a lot of you well tell me that Wink. I need to toughen up a bit and look after my interests first.

Newname12 - that sounds really though. I'm sorry to hear it. I agree though that there is 100% and element of distraction. Keep moving house and you don't have time to be sad or lonely.

OP posts:
Original poster
NearlyAlwaysOnTime · 30/04/2020 20:57

Long whiskers- I have been toying with using the email for ages. I somehow feel underhand doing it. Taking the emotion out is really hard but I agree that is exactly what is needed.

OP posts:
ILikeyourHairyHands · 30/04/2020 20:58

Can I just clarify?

So your SM and Father's house was sold, let's say for £100k for ease, your SM buys a new property for £80k, you get £10k each and then she spends her 10k on an extension, the property is still in trust, but she says her 10k put into the property will not be taken from the value when the trust is finally settled.

She then decides to move again to a property that costs 60k, her previous property that she's improved is now worth 120k and she wants the extra 60k, leaving you with a 30k interest in the new property?

Boomboomboomboom · 30/04/2020 21:02

This isnt legally difficult and your Trust Solicitors should be advising you properly.
Search the land registry house index for the area and work out the % increase for properties in that area. Index the original sale price of property B by that, which would give you an unimproved sale price. Compare to actual sale price to work out what value can be placed on the improvements.
Unless all these sales and moves are reducing the capital, morally its the right thing to do to give her the value of the increase in sale price occasioned by the improvements. (Probably legally too if you knew she was doing it as a resulting trust in her favour for the added value might arise).
If she has depleted the capital by stamp duty, selling fees etc deduct that first.
And don't agree to another move unless she threatens court action under an Act known as TLATA . Take proper legal advice if your trust solicitors are crap.

BumbleBeee69 · 30/04/2020 21:03

wow... that is awful... stand up for yourself and your sister OP.. Flowers

Original poster
NearlyAlwaysOnTime · 30/04/2020 21:03

Not quite. The balance from the first sale was held in trust. So that isn't going anywhere.

The balance from the second sale is what we are arguing over. The new property is held in trust so the capital is safe. The price is roughly equivalent to the amount she purchased the second house for.

The second house went up in value by 65k. Partly due to works she did. So she now wants the majority of it back.

OP posts:
TriangleBingoBongo · 30/04/2020 21:05

I would also consider OP that if you do anything other than what she has asked you are likely to damage your relationship. I would guess that whether you met her halfway, or not at all the fallout would be the same. She clearly think she’s is reasonable in her request. So I’d keep that in mind when considering what’s most important to you-would you still be happy to part with the cash if your relationship is strained going forward.

Original poster
NearlyAlwaysOnTime · 30/04/2020 21:06

Boom boom. Thank you for that. That is pretty much what I hoped would happen. It seems as though there are ways we can just get the question answered. She is resistant to it. But I will push harder for that. Thank you!

OP posts:
Original poster
NearlyAlwaysOnTime · 30/04/2020 21:08

The relationship become less important with each email she sends as it becomes more and more apparent that she is only interested in her own interests. I just hate the idea of a big falling out, but agree that unless we give her 100% of what she wants it is likely to result in the relationship coming to an end.

OP posts:
Mummyoflittledragon · 30/04/2020 21:08

What period of time are we talking about? Houses in general have gone up in value.

I also don’t understand why you are leaving the cash for the original sale in trust, in 20 years time that cash will get you a 2 bed mid terraced when at the time it bought a 4 bed detached.

Original poster
NearlyAlwaysOnTime · 30/04/2020 21:09

Were are talking just over 3 years. It is only the balance that is in trust. Not a large amount. The majority is in the new property which is a trust asset.

OP posts:
Mummyoflittledragon · 30/04/2020 21:12

Oh I see. I thought your dad had a lot of cash floating around and was confused. Apologies. I am just a lay person obviously. I agree with Boom that it won’t matter how much you ask for, she will be upset and therefore you should insist on the fair share for your dsis.

Original poster
NearlyAlwaysOnTime · 30/04/2020 21:14

Agreed. I think I'll take that stance, supported by the regional property data as suggested by PP and be prepared to hear from her pretty quickly!

OP posts:
NeutrinoWrangler · 30/04/2020 21:19

You and your sister have been generous with her in the past, but there comes a time when enough is enough. It sounds like she's taking advantage of your generosity and not putting much effort into her side of the relationship. The time has come for her to take stock of what she has and live within her means instead of putting her hand out and asking for more.

Personally, I wouldn't give away my inheritance to someone who refuses to take responsibility for herself. She's an adult and should begin acting like one.

Mummyoflittledragon · 30/04/2020 21:19

Good. And if she does complain, you can always remind her of her promise and ask her if you’d rather you held her to that.

Boomboomboomboom · 30/04/2020 21:20

You can do the calculations yourself to get a good idea.

Sounds a tricky situation relationship wise but it isnt that difficult legally if you are getting the right advice. The difficulty is the trustees owe duties to both you and your sis and your step mum hence the fence sitting.

mrsBtheparker · 30/04/2020 21:22

Sounds like the trustees have been neglectful, she should not have been allowed to sell a property in which she only had a life interest.

Livelovebehappy · 30/04/2020 21:28

She clearly took advantage of your laid back approach to it all, and now you’re paying the price.

HeckyPeck · 30/04/2020 21:29

Agreed. I think I'll take that stance, supported by the regional property data as suggested by PP and be prepared to hear from her pretty quickly!

If she is arsey about it I’d keep my reply short and sweet and point out that she said she didn’t want any money back.

ToelessPobble · 30/04/2020 21:34

I would be fair and work out what the property would have increased to without the improvements (local estate agents should be able to tell you what they have increased by), take off that, take off any amounts paid in stamp duty for the new house if above the threshold and then let her have what is left ie the amount for improvements minus stamp duty. Then say enough for 5/10 years or however long before you can cope with going through this again.

ToelessPobble · 30/04/2020 21:36

However,.whilst that is probably the fairest thing, if she gets nasty about that then bring out the email.she sent and say enough is enough.

monkeymonkey2010 · 30/04/2020 21:36

she was going to extend but it was so it would be a nice house for her and to "improve our investment" and ended by saying she would never want any of it back
There is the verbal contract!
That she made of her own volition!

Remind her of this verbal contract, let your solictors know also.
Keep your communications re the house in writing.
You need to take a firm stand now if you want to protect what's left of your dad's legacy from being pissed up the walls.
She doesn't intend on letting you have what your dad left you....remember everytime she does this it takes money for legal fees so you've been paying out for her comfort and reducing your own shares each time.
You're not even getting any enjoyment from it.

i think it would be worth seeing if you can do something that makes a clean break between you financially.

Oakmaiden · 30/04/2020 21:36

Ass I think someone above said, I would be inclined to say, you bought the house for (say) £200K, prices in this area have gone up 10% (or whatever) since then, so I expect the capital in trust part to now me worth £220K. If the house has been sold for more than that, then that is her profit form her works, if for less then her works obviously didn't add any value.

Extending doesn't always add value. We extended (adding a laundry room and a study) and lost money on our next sale. It happens.