To think that men should be removed from the frontline NHS roles too as they are disproportionately affected by coronavirus?

[manestay]

I've just read that BAME NHS workers will be removed from the front line because they are more likely to get seriously ill from coronavirus.

I have a male relative who is a front line worker and wonder if he will be removed too as men are disproportionately affected by coronavirus than women?

Surely they should be removing all groups who are vulnerable from front line work?

YANBU - Yes, men should be removed from frontline NHS roles.
YANBU - No, men should not be removed from frontline NHS roles.

Well that will work out well.

Are you sure that what you've read is true? It sounds unlikely.

Overweight people are also disproportionately affected - should they also be removed from frontline roles?
People living in a household with anyone high risk should also be removed.
You'll have nobody left.

You've put 2 YANBUs

YANBU - Yes, men should be removed from frontline NHS roles.
YABU - No, men should not be removed from frontline NHS roles.

Worraliberty - fixed it.

Basically slim, healthy white women with no caring responsibilities for anyone shielding should be running the NHS.

Those 10 women will do a brilliant job

(nb clearly I know there are more than 10 white women who would fit the criteria but still)

I don't see how BAME people can be removed from the frontline, they make up too big a part of the NHS workforce.

Is that really true? My trust are still asking pregnant women to work until 28 weeks. I don't see they will remove BAME staff, which make up a large part of the workforce.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/nhs-bosses-say-bame-staff-should-be-risk-assessed-to-cut-covid-19

I've not heard they are removing bame people from frontline. Where did you hear that? Surely that would massively reduce the number of qualified medics that are working?

44PumpLane I have images of doctors sprinting around in lycra whilst spinning plates.

@TabbyMumz - reported in the Guardian link posted above.

Hmm the quote says 'risk assessed'. My trust are risk assessing pregnant women but for most of them under 28 weeks is they can still work (and still have to work). They are possibly redeploying off of covid wards I guess, I work in a different area so not sure. I imagine the risk assessment will take into account more than just ethnicity.

If they’re otherwise fit and healthy, then I see no reason for them to be pulled from service.
If you get rid of those who are men, you’d have to remove those who are overweight or pregnant.
Then they’ll be even more stretched than they currently are, leaving the NHS in a worse state.

That sounds like a fantastic idea.

BAME nhs workers will not be moved from the nhs front line. It was discussed as an option (alongside many many other things) regarding how the disproportionate numbers of BAME deaths could be addressed. I'm fairly sure the disproportionate number of male deaths and the deaths of those with a high bmi have also been discussed. The disproportionate number of deaths amongst those with certain underlying health conditions were definitely discussed - hence those people being shielded.

It was the written up and presented as a fait accompli by a number of newspapers that thrive on on clickbait and casual racism.

Top tip - if you're feeling resentful of people who aren't white for any perceived preferential treatment that they receive in the U.K., you're probably being manipulated! The question is why would newspaper owners deliberately print falsehoods and misleading information to turn different groups of working and middle class people against each other? 🤷‍♀️.

Interesting that Somerset have started risk assessing BAME workers. They probably have a relatively low percentage. London hospitals would be screwed! Although they mention other options, not just removing them.

In answer to your original question about men, it's a fair point, particularly for older, overweight men. But we will be really stuck if we cut out most groups and probably annoy the remaining staff (the slim, white women) who are made to carry on. I think YABU to mention men alone. Presumably a healthy 25yo male is in a better position than a 65yo woman with high blood pressure etc.

It was the written up and presented as a fait accompli by a number of newspapers that thrive on on clickbait and casual racism.

I read it in the Guardian.

While the data shows that men are dying from covid more than women, we still don't have sex disaggregated data for infection rates and testing rates. Men might be catching covid 5x more than women and only seriously affected in proportionally fewer cases. Eg men more likely to still be going out to work, poorer hand hygiene, more likely to be nail biters, anything. This is the first epidemic recently that men have been more affected than women (Zika for example has terrible female mortality rates, but again we didn't collect the data to know why). Without knowing this it may not make any difference to frontline medical staff who are more likely to practice better hygiene and have PPE than the general population.

I think YABU to mention men alone. Presumably a healthy 25yo male is in a better position than a 65yo woman with high blood pressure etc.

I didn't;

"Surely they should be removing all groups who are vulnerable from front line work?"

PlanBea, I read somewhere that it is because men have more of the receptors (particularly in their testicles) which the virus attaches to.

If they remove, as you suggest, 'all vulnerable groups' from frontline work, who will look after the patients?

When these people get Covid-19 anyway their health outcome will be worse than if they had remained on the frontline, as no one will be there to treat them.

I think by the time you remove all high risk categories, we wouldn’t have a frontline NHS.

BAME, pregnant women, men, older people, those with underlying health condition, those who are overweight. That doesn’t take into account those frontline NHS staff that have vulnerable people in their home. Where do you draw the line? And for those handful of frontline NHS who don’t fit into one of the above categories - what are we going to do when they all go off sick with stress or have a breakdown on the ward?

manestay men are also less likely to seek early medical treatment, are about twice as likely as women to have underlying heart problems which may not have been diagnosed (see less likely to seek medical attention early - for anything) and have poorer personal hygiene on average, as a group... I'm not sure that "I read somewhere" carries much weight...

Apologies I didn't read your post thoroughly and also made my point badly. What I meant was 'men' is not a homogenous vulnerable group. Yes men are on average more affected, but some men are low risk (young, healthy etc).

We literally cannot remove all vulnerable groups, there wouldn't be enough staff, especially with staff isolating with symptoms/tested positive. We can look at relative risks and look at how to protect the most vulnerable. Some will need redeploying, some will need extra measures, but many will need to remain in work.

I actually think the lockdown should only apply to men. I'd go jogging, topless, at midnight