Mp’s asking for £700 for FSM children

[Struggling2020]

Thoughts on this?

news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-school-closures-will-worsen-north-south-education-divide-say-mps-11980290

Maybe I’m bitter (actually I AM bitter) but it’s not just the poorest kids who are struggling. In fact my friends on full benefits are the most secure right now out of all of us, they can focus 100% of their time and attention on their kids as no work to do from home and they’re still getting FSM with no worries about losing their jobs or reduction in income, intact according to them, benefits have gone up this month. (Fully appreciate this may not be the case all round)

In my experience, It’s those of us in the squeezed middle struggling! Trying to work and homeschool, struggling financially as everyone at home for lunches as opposed to usual nursery/ks1 free lunch. Worried about our jobs and what the future holds. Many of us forced onto reduced hours.

I understand statistically that those on FSM are more likely to fall behind. But is this another way of trying to disguise the issues? Trying to fit people into boxes of how we can help. The rich will be fine, the poor will be helped, the middle will be forgotten?

I think I need perspective.... my AIBU

AIBU to think it is not just FSM children who are disadvantaged by the current situation and actually, the problem is much bigger than that?

I don't get your point, if all your worrying comes to fruition and you lose your job you'll be getting those benefits too, so if they were that great you wouldn't be worrying surely.

If you're out of work at the moment you'd find it even harder to get a job when you're competing with everyone with a more up to date CV.

So better to have a job I say. It is hard for families still in poverty but not eligible for fsm but many of those are working and teaching their kids just like you.

As someone who’s been in receipt of benefits for 17 years including when working full time I too would LOVE to know

1 what “full benefits” are

2 how you know seemingly a fair few people who are able and willing to work but aren’t and are on “full benefits”

3 how you know the intricate details of these peoples finances - as ever on benefit bashing threads and yes op this IS a benefit bashing thread - given I know I don’t tell anyone my full personal finances the only people that know are my bank, my welfare rights officer and dwp!

YOU are begrudging these CHILDREN this small amount of help they are receiving pretty damn late in the scheme of things.

“You don’t know anyone on full benefits?”

There’s no such thing as “full benefits”!

Each household is assessed individually.

“Full benefits, majority claiming will not be working at all.” Because the majority of people who fall into the category you are very poorly and in a prejudiced way describing are:

Full time carers
Disabled themselves

“Typical mumsnet creating an argument or scenario where it doesn’t exist” I think you’ll find that’s you op

You keep saying those of us on benefits “aren’t struggling” and speaking as if we have nothing to worry about - shows you haven’t the first clue what it’s like to be in that position!

As a disabled single mum when dd was younger and still at home it was extremely difficult, every penny had to be accounted for and the govt could reduce, freeze or withdraw benefits basically on a whim! And there’s usually precious bloody little we can do about it!

In addition who do you think is going to be hit hardest when this govt decides after this immediate crisis is over that even more stringent “austerity measures” will be needed?! Yep! That’d be the people barely keeping themselves and their families housed, clothed and fed on benefits.

For the past 10 years austerity measures have been slowly killing off the sick and disabled, that is now going to increase.

I never understand how when some people are struggling they blame the dirt poor, rather than the obscenely rich. me neither! Especially as the poorest are the least able to change it!

Op if you think there are children needing support and not getting it (WITHOUT dragging other families into it!) contact your Mp. That’s what they’re for.

Hamm87 re housing benefit issue get onto shelter and/or your local welfare rights office, they’re usually good at lighting a fire under them

All children are in the same position currently with work being set at home

wow! Such wilful ignorance! NO! Not all children are in the same position. Families eligible for FSM are way less likely to afford to have books, stationery, IT equipment, internet access... than better off families THAT is just part of the disadvantage - they are also more likely to have extra pressures at home due to the pressures on their parents including but not limited to

Ill health of all kinds
Substance abuse issues
Domestic violence
Neglect...

Oh ffs it’s you! You always bash poor families.

“Anyone who can't knock up a decent and nutritious bowl of soup for around 50p per portion is a useless creature indeed” i fucking despair! Really? How about those families that don’t have a kitchen? Let alone a cooker or large pots? Or can’t afford even the basic ingredients? Or to top up the meter?

“grindergirl, what an obnoxious post. I can't imagine how unaware and unpleasant you'd have to be to post that.” Wholeheartedly seconded

And @Doggybiccys and @Prontoe are barely any better than that poster! Shame on you!

“If 25% of your income goes on food, you must be eating a lot of steak or something?” Ffs! Not if your income is very low to start with!

@grindergirl how long ago did you do that? And how was your health at the time and your child’s? And what source of income?

I’m guessing at least 20 years ago when things were VERY different in the Uk, you sound like my dad who is equally clueless, callous and obnoxious on the subject, largely because he was LUCKY enough that he and mum for all their working lives were in good health as were myself and my siblings at that point. He was also LUCKY that he literally walked straight into his first job out of school with no formal qualifications because there was an economic boom occurring and LUCKY that he was young and fit enough to then be able to join the army and he’s never applied for another job since the 60’s!

Fucks sake! Some people really need to educate themselves on the reality of poverty in this country just now, people who should be getting help are literally dying of starvation - and that was happening BEFORE the pandemic hit! God alone knows how much worse things are going to get in the wake of it under this shower of shite govt who’ve not one of them ever done an honest days hard work or gone to bed hungry!

It's a long while ago admittedly, but if I could bring up a child when I was a 17-yr-old single mother without resorting to handouts, so can others. You give children what you can afford---not what you think they 'deserve'...and then expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab.

If it’s a long time ago, then I’m guessing the benefits system didn’t exist when you were 17 with a baby? In which case you’re saying that because you didn’t get any help nobody else should.
Or it did exist and you chose not to get the help which was a bit silly.
Or you had a rich boyfriend/husband. Not everyone has one of those!

Either way, just because you didn’t get financial help whatever the reason was, it doesn’t mean everyone else is in the wrong for doing the opposite. I have more respect for people claiming what they’re entitled so that their children don’t suffer, than people sticking their nose up at it because they’re too proud and want to be all morally superior. Pride doesn’t feed your child.

Benefits depends on when you had your children. The new system you will only get help apart from child benefit for two children. My friend has 8 kids, 6/10 she gets benefits for. If it was capped at 2 she’d never have been able to afford 8 kids.

I believe this is where the resentment comes from sometimes. Piss takers

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe. I think I did recently give kind advice to someone on another post who was struggling---emotionally, not financially. I posted on this thread because I feel that far too many people have an unjustified sense of entitlement to handouts. And if someone can't cook basic meals, then it is about time that they learned how to do it. (I am not counting the homeless or people for whatever reason don't have cooking facilities.) If they can operate a laptop/smart phone and yet can't access the gazillion recipes with simple cooking instructions that are out there, then they are indeed useless.

No mandatory work has been set. If kids whose schools are insisting it is compulsory, then they will just have to redo the work.

Catch up on where they should be in the curriculum when they return. They will have missed an entire term of work. Are you suggesting the work they would do was pointless so they will just miss is out? Or will they spend the next term catching up on it? Kids going to secondary school will be expected to have covered a certain number of concepts. DD will be going in to P7 and by the end of the year will have to have covered it all.

But you make the point well. A whole bunch of children who have done the work will just have to sit and wait whilst they catch up the ones who haven’t. It may not be compulsory but it’s well known that children struggle to go back to learning even after a summer holiday. Keeping them working during lockdown is beneficial and for some, the routine is important. Not compulsory, but necessary.

grindergirl, I don't actually disagree with you. I'm generally appalled at fast fashion and think that it's a crying shame that we're so wasteful as a society. My earlier post about kitchen facilities and so forth is the reason that I hold back from saying that anybody can cook soup... all things being equal, yes they could. Some people don't have confidence/interest and for whatever reason, just can't/won't. You've explained though and I do see your point. I wouldn't go so far as to say people are 'useless' (not unless they're a puffed-up politician, a footballer or a reality 'star'), so I'm doing it too... I guess we do all judge so I take back what I said in my post to you, I overreacted, sorry.

That UC programme I was talking about though was a complete eye-opener for me.

I haven’t begrudged FSM kids anything, I’ve said others should get help in addition to them, I’m certainly not speaking from a place of privilege.

But where do you draw the line on who gets help, where ever you draw the line in the sand some one will deem it unfair, if you was included you would be on the side of calling your thread a benefit bashing thread...

I had to think what FSM children were. It's s bit of a grim label. Not sure if I think this should be supplemented. Universal credit is increasing so that should cover it.

@grindergirl

Even if people have cooking facilities they may well not have the knowledge, confidence or cognitive or physical ability to make cheap soup!

There's at least 2 generations of Uk adults were let down because cookery lessons were either altered into crappy marketing lessons or withdrawn altogether from schools all over the country and their parents may well have been working 2 even 3 jobs each and too damn knackered to teach their kids to cook.

I am very lucky that I come from a family where my mum did have the time and knowledge to teach us to cook and bake but I'm very well aware that's not true for many, I've taught some of these to cook. That also included people who'd grown up in state care - I can assure you they're not taught to cook or even budget!

I also well remember on "child of our time" when they did the episode that included weaning there was a couple who both had learning difficulties who the production crew realised they were feeding their baby food dangerously high in salt! Because nobody (despite iirc them having a gp, hv and social worker supposedly providing support). They were following advice they'd been given to "just give baby what you eat" without anyone checking what they ate!

I have a physical disability which at this point means I really struggle with more "muscular" cooking jobs, I struggle to peel and chop root veg now so that limits what I can cook.

Confidence wise people with a very tight budget may well feel wary of risking wasting food making a dish that may turn out inedible and need thrown! They may also be wary due to food safety concerns if anyone in the household really can't afford even a "mild" dose of food poisoning - which also applied to me not only for myself but also dd has a disability too which means her stomach gets upset very easily and also means she is very slight despite eating well so I was and still am very cautious on the food safety side of things.

When several of these factors converge on one household is it any wonder they stick to eating/cooking what's familiar to them?

Threads like this become tedious to read as it is pages and pages of outrage.

Can we not label children, 'FSM children' please, OP. It is very unpleasant.

I think how you have worded your OP, is why people have become outraged.

I had to go and find the article so I knew what you were driving at.

Children that are the most socially disadvantaged that are part of care plan or are 'looked after' (another bloody awful term) have what is known as a pupil premium that is paid to the school annually and pays for things like rainbows, brownies, and extra curricular activities approved by the school. I think what the article is saying, that the children are at risk of falling behind in their education and they would benefit from extra tuition and that needs to be paid for from central government. I have no problem with this, I'd estimate that the majority of women on MN wouldn't have a problem with it. Your point is that it is not only children that are often socially disadvantaged, but people such as yourself who dont qualify for the pupil's premium, may well struggle educationally as a result of the pandemic?

If that's your point, you have one. That would be a great discussion to go from.

I definitely don't think we should send them home with laptops as some in London don't even have a bed or coat and any laptop sadly in some cases will be pawned by the next day by a parent to buy drugs. We really need children in those positions back in school with the children of nurses etc as they are in some of areas.

You do know that, as somebody whose child has been in receipt of FSM at any point over the last six years, your child is counted as part of the Pupil Premium Group and will therefore likely be included as one of those to get additional funding?

Are you feeling so hard done by now?

If this money existed then it would probably be added to PP. Which means a school will be able to use it any way they see fit to benefit ALL their students.

I think the idea they would enforce one on one tuition as silly. Teachers dont have the time for that. Spending it on TAs etc for a whole class would make more sense.

Your point is that it is not only children that are often socially disadvantaged, but people such as yourself who dont qualify for the pupil's premium, may well struggle educationally as a result of the pandemic?

Yes pretty much, as I’ve said countless times, I do not begrudge those on FSM any benefits or support that they receive but countless other children, for a multitude of reasons, will also be disadvantaged from this situation and will be in need of support.

Hopefully things will be put in place to support all children that need it.

Totally agree with you OP!

Not sure if I think this should be supplemented. Universal credit is increasing so that should cover it.

Not everyone will get the extra from U C though .

I definitely don't think we should send them home with laptops as some in London don't even have a bed or coat and any laptop sadly in some cases will be pawned by the next day by a parent to buy drugs. We really need children in those positions back in school with the children of nurses etc as they are in some of areas.

Do you have a link to how many of these laptops were pawned?

It comes up all the time on these threads yet there’s nothing on google...

@Graphista. I wasn't including anyone with physical disabilities in my post either. Clearly I could have explained myself better. But we all draw from our own experiences. I was certainly no cordon bleu cook when I was 17, but I had the ability to make stuff like spag bol and chili con carne. That was 1974-a lifetime ago. Yes, there were plenty of jobs around back then, but they didn't pay too well either. Not if you worked in pubs, cafes and factories. There was a benefits system back then too-I claimed family allowance which everyone got-but I didn't want State intrusion in my life so I went out to work and put the daughter with a childminder rather than go on social welfare. No rich boyfriend, btw. I lived in an attic bedsit in a Victorian house-two flights of stairs to charge up and down to use the communal kitchen. Life was tough, but it teaches you survival skills. Now I see my granddaughter-25 and with no physical or mental disabilities, with 2 children-and content to live on welfare. She scrapes by, but insists on buying takeaways, ready-meals, and other supermarket crap rather than cook. Rather than buy big tubs of yoghurt, the kids have their special little branded stuff which costs a small fortune. She'd rather look at rubbish all day on her smart phone, rather than make the effort of calling up a recipe. So it's hard for me to have sympathy for those who make no effort to help themselves. Like i said, personal experience often colours how we see things

In fact my friends on full benefits are the most secure right now out of all of us

I wouldn't be so sure about that, the cost of food has gone up massively and they are probably struggling a lot. £15 a week of FSM vouchers doesn't go anywhere near as far as it would have done a month ago. There are other added pressures on their money, I have bought revision guides recommended for year 10s, two novels that are GCSE reading material and supplies of paper and printer ink. I've probably spent about £200 on things for my teenagers to do school at home.

@funinthesun19

My children are in the disadvantaged category, and all I can do is support them the best I can. School are amazing and I hope my children have a great future. Depressing to know that statistically they may underachieve though

I had a very short period of unemployment 6 years ago and my children are still Pupil Premium because I claimed FSM at that time. And I am a teacher - was before and have been since! Poverty is tough to overcome - if you’re not eating well, aren’t warm, can’t afford to bathe everyday, don’t eat breakfast, don’t have the ‘right’ clothes or bag or phone....it all makes learning tough. But maternal education is also a massive indicator in academic success. And a parent who isn’t chaotic, is getting kids to school on time, helps with homework, has boundaries etc etc all ensure positive outcomes. Don’t worry. It’s a statistic. It’s not an inevitable life map. There is a clear educational gap between children living in poverty and those who don’t but plenty of well off, middle class children with caring, supportive parents do terribly and plenty of kids with backgrounds most of us couldn’t begin to imagine do amazingly well.

I will also say, children who are PP/FSM are very closely monitored because Ofsted monitors their outcomes and schools are judged on how well (or not) they close the gap. See that as a positive - someone is keeping an eye on progress and will push for success.

Parents are panicking for nothing and ignoring the bigger picture. Even if your child has managed to get through all of this mentally, doesn't mean their mates will. That's what you should be focusing on. Any extra funding the schools will get will go towards this.

Decent schools have been planning for this fall out for the past 5 or 6 weeks.

Schools that are engaged with the world around them, have been following other countries from the beginning. They started planning for the emotional wellbeing for when the doors opened.

There is one year group that is currently disadvantaged. The current year 10. And it's still doable that they catch up if the curriculum hasn't been scrapped.
Exam dates for next year can be moved. Colleges/6th form does the usual if grades met entrance criteria.

Primary school, There is no reason why they shouldn't be all their 'natural' level by the time they reach secondary schools.

And entrance exams, schools will need to be flexible in terms of admittance.

When you get the next school call, ask them what the plan is for return to school. Very few will be open doors and 'business' as usual.

The extra funding will help a lot of students within the schools because finally, schools will have some extra money that can be used.

And yes, anyone eligible should claim simply to help fund the school. It helps support other areas of education, including the outdated tech and dodgy sites like Zoom.

I know we are all going to pay for all this through our taxes, but even if it a lot gets spent on Internet safety for educators, I'm all for it. Because this year has highlighted how appalling some really are. It's not their fault, it's all the bloody paperwork. Even a 'simple' chat with a student, to cover your own arse, you have to make a note of it.

And laptops?
The government tried this several years ago in an attempt to get children online. They even included internet connection for those who needed it.

The curriculum is not fit for purpose.
There is little time to do actual work in many classrooms.
Many in education don't have a clue when it comes to SN, and remember, this also includes the gifted children.

In theory, any teacher or hlta should be able to walk into any class and a lesson plan available. Instead, it's often the case of asking the students to fill them in. End of lesson nothing learned. Although why some have to create them for every lesson time after time, I still cannot comprehend. Imagine, a national database of lesson plans designed by educators?

Now is the perfect time to start a new curriculum. For the current year, 10's they either continue with the GCSE, or there is a special exam, just like the one planned for the current year 11's. It happened in the past with Cse's, O Levels etc.

Although come to think of it, gcse's came in when I was in secondary, and we didn't need to spend 3+ hours after school and most of the weekend doing homework. And school holidays, enjoy them and see you next term.

And if having 6 weeks off over the summer was detrimental to the educational system, then it would have stopped long ago. And countries abroad wouldn't have a long break. Just look at Japan and Canada, both have long holidays, both above us when it comes to education.

@Chillyegg, I’ve read this thread with fascination and I’d love to read your research. I’m the adoptive parent of two children, but the eldest, who is FSM (single parent, poor family) and who is registered blind (due to her birth mother’s abuse of heroin and methadone while pregnant) is in Y7 at a super selective Grammar school. My DD knows how amazing I think she is to have achieved what she has so far, despite the odds, but I’d love to be able to put her achievements in context for her.

I’d just like to point out to a few posters above that the reality of distance learning for us as a family is that we have one (very old iPad to share as a family), no printer, and we live in a tiny house with open-plan living space so my toddler DD plays alongside my 12-year-old accessing her Google Classrooms work.

Yanbu.

Once the government goes bankrupt none of this will matter. Itll be each for themself.