To think that sickness absence policies will change?

[BirdieFriendReturns]

We normally read that Mumsnetters drag themselves into work with flu/limbs hanging off/miscarriages etc, I’m hoping that this faux bravado will change now. I imagine that going forward, anybody with cold/flu symptoms will be told to stay home for 7 days.

My employer has already changed their policy - anybody off with suspected Covid19 will not have it count against sickness absence and it won’t affect sick pay.

Do you think employers will change their stance on sickness absence? Will the government make them pay SSP from day one going forward?

Nah. They'll say 'Well, I was in work throughout COVID' and 'You've already had time off self isolating, you can't possibly have it again' 'Oh, that's all gone now' or 'NHS workers didn't take time off sick when you were at home'.

I hope so.

People need to make sure they are contactable too becuase if you cant find cover you have to come in. Higher management this means you...stop ignoring your phones when we know full well as soon as its opening time and no one has signed in/on you will be calling...

I wonder if employers will be blamed if/when we get a second/third/fourth peak due to people dragging themselves to work?

The military is concerned that loads of personnel are going to use it as an excuse to skive off work. They get full sick pay and there seems to be very little sickness absence recording.

Sadly probably not. So many employers don’t even pay more than statutory sick pay which pretty much indicates they don’t give a toss about their staff anyway.

Not a chance, DP's contract promises up to 6 months sick leave at full pay. In reality DP has never had a sick day paid and now, after a spate of the DC being hospitalised for accidents, is not allowed another day off for 9 months or he risks losing his job. That includes Corona related stuff. Until employers stop acting like complete twats people will still have to drag themselves in when they're ill.

Hopefully more firms will say to wfh if you have a cold rather than wanting people in. That's a start although it only applies to jobs that can be done from home.

Pah haha no way until SSP is abolished. We can’t afford to take days off and drag ourselves in half dead.

We will have no money as a nation so things like paid sick leave even for nurses may well become something from the old days.

Surely it all depends on the honesty of staff and the cash flow of the business.

We don't get paid sick pay. Too many people in the business take liberties so the Barr has gone down to the lowest level. It sucks, but it won't change because basically people won't change.
If we want to get paid, we work.

Having said that, we are.non essential and furloughed. I can imagine lots of things changing in the way people shop and live, and I foresee lots of jobs disappearing in the near future.

No way. Look at how much absences cost businesses and the majority would rather run the risk of people spreading infections around, covid is the latest infection but it is just at the bottom of a very long list!

It would need to be government directed. It's either that, with a whistle blowing line, or another wave that needs lock down.

Hopefully we'll have antibody testing and infection testing.

No chance

Dh's work have already stated you get one Covid related absence. So people will take themselves in to work with mild symptoms in case it's just a cold, as they won't want to risk taking time off and then not needing it. Thereby spreading it around. They were also incredibly reluctant to allow anyone to WFH, basically they did it when the government said they had to, so I can't see them allowing people to WFH with mild symptoms instead of taking sick days.

I think there'll be a more realistic approach for anyone capable of working from home. If you'd be well enough to work but are basically a germ machine then stay at home and work from home will be the new norm instead of hand wringing from management that they need to see people in the office.

Hopefully this will have a knock on effect of reducing general spreading of germs. I can't see "in person" changing much, maybe more enforced unpaid leave if someone is thought to be infectious germs.

Hardly any businesses are getting through this in good shape. If they haven't closed because of lockdown, they'll either be facing a serious downturn in money being paid to them/bad customer debt or be paying far more than projected on extra staff to cover unexpected ways of working. None of them are going to blithely give more money away in sick pay.

You may even see more companies only offering SSP. I see unions being very active in the next year or two fighting all the contractual changes big companies want to make to limit their financial exposure to pandemics in the future.

I've had ongoing coughs, loads of chest tightness and generally feeling crappy. Ordinary temperature and not bad enough to stay in bed.

If I wasn't on furlough I'm not sure I would have taken time off (didn't feel that bad, and still not convinced it wasn't just an asthma attack despite not ever having one before) I'd probably have self cert'd. Lots of people will probably feel the same way, as they don't want to behave like a hypocondriacs or over react.

What I'm getting at, is this what will probably contribute to continuing numbers.

This is a reasonably temporary situation. We are currently in a health vacuum, because little is known about the debase, it's spread and infection rates

The more testing is widely available to link symptoms to CV or rule them out, and immunity testing and the sooner vaccines are available, the situation will become much less guess work and much more evidence based.

If someone is genuinely concerned they may have CV and level-set with their employer, then trust will be present on both sides. If someone tries to swing the lead, they may get away with it, but over time it will be difficult to keep pulling a fast one.

I'm in public sector where you might think there would be a high absence rate, but the trend for sickness absence is currently no different to non-CV times. That's because staff are able to work from home and we're all having to pull together to provide support to front line. We've been told that CV sickness will not trigger absence management, and on that basis people are not 'abusing the privilege'.

I can imagine if employers treat their staff badly and put them at risk, staff won't have any motivation to support their employer.

disease

I also think not a chance. Once this has subsided employers will go back to the way they were. Stupid sickness policies, bottoms on seats in offices policies, 9-5. Even when it's been proven that it's entirely possible for people to work from home, and flexible hours, at least some of the time.

But it's hell for the controlling micro-managers, and they dominate our workplaces. sadly so they will want things back to normal asap.

I think there'll be a more realistic approach for anyone capable of working from home. If you'd be well enough to work but are basically a germ machine then stay at home and work from home will be the new norm instead of hand wringing from management that they need to see people in the office.

I agree, wfh is the new normal and it means people can remain productive but not spread germs.

And let's not forget the common cold is another form of Corona virus, but look how many years we've all struggled in for fear of being told we're a precious snowflake!

Not a chance.

I was ill a few weeks ago (it was tonsillitis I think, but I had a high temperature, sore throat and cough).

The HR manager in a Teams meeting said "Well it can't be Corona as she's not even been anywhere!"

My one son had been to Italy and had a fever a couple of weeks previously, incidentally, so her comment was ignorant.

She drags herself into our office regularly ill and prides herself on presenteeism while infecting those around us. She insisted on sitting next to me when she had Laryingitis and couldn't even speak.

I've always worked in offices (25 years) and now I work in one within education. I've never known such a hard nosed bunch.
I do see a lot of absences across school (no criticism as I happen to think working in education is incredibly stressful and I've nothing but respect for teaching staff) and not sure if that's why they're not very sympathetic, but there's something about the attitude in our HR that's really off.

No way.

I spend years working in various types of care homes, from elderly care to mental health units and you’d think that places with such vulnerable residents would have good sickness policies.

You were expected to come in regardless - D&V bugs, heavy colds anything contagious they didn’t believe you were sick or didn’t care as long as you were in for your shift.

Only SSP was a paid anyway (after four days and on min wage, you can’t afford to miss a day or two pay) and even then they would drag that out and take weeks or months to pay it. Some of these were eye watering lolly expensive private care homes - I often wonders of families would be happy paying the huge fees if they knew how at risk their loved ones were.

They system needs to be changed and everyone should get full sick pay.

(So many typos but you get my drift). It’s also why I’m not surprised at all the care home deaths form covid. I still speak to ex colleagues who are working with people who are clearly ill but can’t take time off because of shit managers or they can’t afford to. It’s frightening.

We changed at the beginning of March. People who were quarantined at that point could work from home, if you had Covid-19 symptoms and were unable to work, no sick note was required and it does not count against your sick leave.

If your caring responsibilities mean you cannot work, then we will work around you and you continue to be paid. If you can work part time, we will accommodate that, we will have meetings around home schooling and caring responsibilities. We closed five offices on 16th March and had everyone working from home the next day. Currently they are sending out monitors, desks and chairs if necessary to work from home... and we were paid a day early in March In case there was an issue running payroll.

And yes, I am bloody lucky and very grateful.