HS2

[GoofyLuce]

I've just seen a comment on another thread about HS2 being a government vanity project. I completely agree with this statement!I think it's utterly pointless and the money used to create it could have been better spent elsewhere.

Do others agree? AIBU?

It would be cheaper to demolish Birmingham and rebuild it closer to London.

The average person is very thick

People were saying was a disaster the Japanese hsr project would be, and it's obviously been a huge success.

I'm not opposed to investing in high speed railway. Other European countries are way ahead of us in terms of this. We've massively under-invested in our railways for years compared to our road infrastructure because we have a complicated relationship with public transport and a very powerful and vocal motoring lobby.

However, I'm not convinced that HS2 is the right project and the amount spent on it already is criminal.

How much time is really being saved here?

20 minutes on a fast train from London to Birmingham?

The most important argument is the cost-benefit one - will the savings that HS2 brings outweigh its cost? The more time we spend faffing about discussing it, the less likely this criterion will be met.

The fact that picturesque villages in the Cotswolds full of Tory voters will be impacted doesn't cut it with me as an argument. If HS2 saves money long term and brings a benefit to millions, then unlucky. That's just the price of living in a society.

20 minutes on a fast train from London to Birmingham?

If millions of people are saving those 20 minutes, that might be worth doing. I'm not arguing it is - I'm not party to the figures - but it might be.

Whilst I agree with many that our current railway network is antiquated, I’m not convinced that HS2 is the right way forward.

Shaving a few minutes between London and Birmingham isn’t what this country needs, in my opinion, we need a more integrated transport network to connect other parts of the country that are currently badly served , eg north east and north west .

At the moment, the economy cannot possibly justify the eye-watering expenditure that is what HS2 will cost.

Agree entirely Op

It isn't utterly pointless, in particular if it provides a viable alternative to flying for significant numbers it will have longer term environmental benefits. But it doesn't look good in the context of a government that has destroyed a lot of public services for ideology, and in the context of successive governments who have concentrated transport spending on London. Unless there is a proper attempt to even out spending, HS2 will just suck more cash out the rest of the Country and into London (again).

If it were being built top down, so improving rail in the North of England first, then I’d have less of a problem with it.

The average person is very thick. People were saying was a disaster the Japanese hsr project would be, and it's obviously been a huge success.

Well that's a very thick argument. The world is changing. At the time of Japanese HSR, getting across Japan quickly to support their highly successful manufacturing based economy was vital. We don't have a highly successful manufacturing based economy. And the need for travel is reducing all the time. And environmental issues are only going to add to the pressure not to travel.

The money would be far better spend delivering high speed fibre cabling to every community in the UK, so anyone could have seemless meetings online with colleagues remotely.

The third runway also needs to be scrapped. Post lockdown, a lot of firms are going to be wondering why they were sending Jane to New York twice a month, when she did everything she needed to do from home on Skype/Zoom during lockdown.

It's the type of infrastructure project that is needed, people are looking at the headline of it only reducing travel time by 20 mins, what they aren't looking at is that a purpose built high speed rail line will bring us in line with the rest of Europe as we are running on antiquated victorian lines still.

Once this new line is in place it will free up the existing line for more local and freight trains which will ease reliance on HGV etc.

@1555CC,

Thought the third runway has been scrapped?

Government is not going to appeal, was my understanding...

I used to think the same as you all, until I saw this video...

Incredibly informative and the man speaking in it, is Gareth Dennis who deals with all the railway infrastructure & planning.

@Hingeandbracket Please watch the above video, it may well change your view on HS2 entirely. It did mine

The Third Runway is not officially scrapped, but is set to go the way of the short third runway and the extra-long second runway. Heathrow will probably come back with a runway in a tunnel or convert the M4 into a slightly bendy runway, but the answer is the same.

Regards HS2, shoulda bin Maglev. Maglev rejected for being 'more expensive' than the initial HS2 price. Maglev turns out to be cheaper, and faster and lighter and whizzier and better and quieter and less polluting and everything.

Wanna Maglev.

It will still be quicker and cheaper to drive to somewhere like Watford junction and then get the train in.

The benefit doesn't come so much from the Birmingham to London link, but from the extra capacity it creates on local and regional lines. HS2 is really important to sorting out the mess around Manchester and Leeds.

We might need FDR New Deal type infrastructure projects to get our economy to power through the next few years though. Building a functioning rail network doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

20 mins??
Bloody hell, that's barely enough time for a proper "Man shit"!

It isn’t pointless. It will bring much needed connectivity to the Midlands and the North. The first part of the project is essential to achieving that overall connectivity.

Of course its pointless, we are long past the need for connectivity for production. Many companies are reducing the amount of travel needed and that's only going to get more common after the way they have adapted due to the virus.

It's also decimated areas and forced people out of their homes not too far from me and yet all those people affected are those it's not not going to 'benefit' but that's fine as apparently they don't matter as much as a stupid train.

It will bring much needed connectivity to the Midlands and the North.

The need for actual connectivity is reducing all the time. And environmental pressures will reduce it further. The need for virtual connectivity is growing hugely. Hi speed broadband enabled connectivity. That's where the money needs to go.

In a few years, only manual workers will travel for work.

The fact that picturesque villages in the Cotswolds full of Tory voters will be impacted doesn't cut it with me as an argument.

Me neither - particularly as it goes nowhere near the Cotswolds.