Secondary Teachers, what do you think about going back to school for the last term with social distancing?

[sunshineanddaffodils]

My year 8 and year 10 dc are in the best possible situation at this point. Both have their own computer, space to work, pretty good home learning from school and both are cooperating. However, I am so worried about the impact being off school until September will have on them socially, on their mental well-being let alone the academic side of things. When I think about dc who are less fortunate than mine I feel so anxious and concerned. I’d be so happy to see some sort of phased return to school as soon as possible really. Looking at the stats I’m not concerned about the health any of the dc or staff at the school although obviously wouldn’t expect anyone in the vulnerable categories or dc of the vulnerable to be expected to return (there’s only one teacher at at their school who is shielding because he’s diabetic). I think school should reopen and the vulnerable remain isolated so the virus cannot be passed on to them if dc fo pick it up at school.

I think if they do increase the number of students going into school before September, it will be an experiment to see how this impacts on the number of cases of Covid-19. Then there will be the summer break to ease the pressure again. At the moment though the numbers of cases and deaths is not indicating it is time to relax social distancing. Keeping everyone 2m apart in a school will not work unless the numbers allowed in at any one time are very low.

Schools should only reopen when it’s absolutely safe for the staff and pupils

That would be never then. So what's your solution?

I don’t think you can extrapolate that Australian paper to the U.K. Australia has fewer cases than we’ve had deaths and it looks like it’s in a totally different point in it’s outbreak than we are.

And it’s a small sample size with few cases found by the looks of it. Without further evidence it’s difficult to say whether that holds up.

Even before lockdown, my DD’s entire year got told to stay at home as so many teachers were ill or self isolating, they couldn’t cope. I think if they reopen schools, we’ll just have months and months of chaos like that. Especially if they introduce this new app that alerts people when they’ve been near someone who now has symptoms and tells them they’ve got to isolate for 14 days.

I'm interested to hear from those who think the risk just isn't worth it: what is there is never an effective vaccine? What if covid doesn't go away? Do we just keep the schools closed for ever? (I don't have the answer either by the way).

I work in a secondary and we are planning for a phased return in September at the earliest.

And this is why the Government need to make a plan, and communicate it to schools. Because if all schools knew for a fact we will be looking at a phased return in September, and what a phased return actually means - just some school years coming in and the rest taught online; pupils coming in for a week on week off timetable to half class sizes, certain lessons being taught in school (science and PE) while other are taught remotely (english and maths)? Then they could plan effectively. As it is head teachers are having to guess so may be wasting their time planning for eventualities that may never happen, while they are not planning for what actually WILL happen.

I think I’d rather wait to see what the science says.

If opening schools increases the value of R to a level that means the health service collapses, then it’s probably not a very good idea.

I’m not a scientist or mathematician or anywhere near qualified to start making judgements about what PPE would do to the R value.

But... I don’t think it’s a matter of ‘worried’ staff and kids could wear PPE if they wanted (before we’ve even considered where it would be procured from) it’s more a case of, if they did, and if it could be sourced, would it have any impact on the R value.

Going back isn’t necessarily about the direct impact on teachers and pupils (although I am one, so it’s not that I’m not concerned) but it’s about the impact on the wider community and not letting that R value rise again.

I think that’s a situation we have to deal with when or if we get to it dice. Right now the focus is on flattening the curve and getting the numbers down.

Laughable suggestion from someone who clearly has no idea how a school or class operate.

I suppose op does highlight the need for school in one aspect...

DH is a secondary teacher. I don’t really fancy him bringing corona into our house with our our vulnerable DC. MIL is diabetic and has COPD and my mum has cancer. Why are is the education of your children more important than the health of my family?
Thing is you could argue that anyone going to work at the moment could catch it and bring it back to their families. My DH is still having to go to work everyday so potentially is putting my family at risk. What about people working in supermarkets, bus drivers etc?

The NHS innovated, solved issues rather than just declaring it impossible, they completely changed the way hospital buildings, staffing and infrastructure worked. And the NHS did that in about 3 weeks.

No it didn’t, the NHS has a longstanding pandemic plan. It’s spent years planning this or something like it. And it hasn’t exactly stopped MNers complaining about it.

I didn't think children could spread it

Oh dear god. Please, do not start a thread without actually being aware of the facts.

Children are the SILENT CARRIERS out of everyone. The ones who spread it everywhere without showing symptoms themselves.

My DH is a teacher and has asthma, but not serious enough to warrant him being classed as vulnerable, still serious enough though that he would have a higher chance of not recovering as well if he got the virus. I don't really want him going back to school just because you decide you think it's the right time.

You do understand there are fully qualified professionals, medical/government etc, who are more capable of making these decisions that you are.

You lack of concern for the staff is school says a lot about you.

Pleade explain how 1000 people can keep 2m apart in school?
A standard classroom under Govt guidelines (BB103, if you're interested) is 55 sq m. How do we put 30 students & 1 or 2 members of staff in there and teach effectively?
How will we run break & lunch in the canteen? Generally?

How will we keep energetic, emotional students 2m apart from each other when they come in having not seen each other for months?

We are worried about all our students - this is not how school should be working but we are also really concerned as to how schools can operate whilst the is no vaccine or cure for covid-19

@FATEdestiny

I get the opinion you don't think very highly of teachers?

Not long ago OP you were really worried about post coming through to your house with potential germs yet have decided that you are not at all concerned about children and staff being in contact with each other in small spaces all day then taking home whatever to their families. Why do they not matter?

I think we are going to need to accept an extra level of risk in our lives we didn't have before. The information from the WHO about the lack of antibodies after infection suggests that there may never be proper immunity, either naturally occurring or created by vaccine. Life will have to go on, and we will have to accept that there are Corona deaths in the same way we accept that there are road traffic deaths, flu deaths, cancer deaths.

I also think the government may need to create a supply teacher army to plug gaps on staffing during any phased return that requires more staffing, and to step in as individual teachers have to self isolate. There are huge numbers of qualified, experienced teachers who have left the profession because, basically, teaching sucks. I did. I would consider doing a bit of supply work to help get society moving again, if I was paid well enough for it, and if the workload was made more reasonable by government order.

the thing is that absolutely everyone either is vulnerable or has a close family member who is vulnerable or a best friend or whatever. we all do. this is what makes the unpicking of the current situation so incredibly difficult. there isnt an answer. if you open things up even a little before we have a vaccine then we as a society have to accept that this will mean excess deaths. and excess deaths of our loved ones. we cant stay as we are for ever.

It's not just the Australia study, it's others too. Increasing evidence around the world that school closures have little to no impact on infection rates and increasing evidence children are far less likely to pass it to other children or adults.

Many countries with low infection rates like Sweden and Iceland never closed schools. Other countries in Scandinavia have reopened schools and they'll be tracking the effects of that, which will be interesting.

The decisions to close schools are largely based on evidence of children spreading influenza. COVID does seem to work differently in children than 'flu.

In the case of the 9 year old with COVID in France who came into contact with 172 people and did not infect any of them with COVID, not even siblings is interesting. He was also positive for 'flu and HAD passed that on.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30095-X/fulltext&ved=2ahUKEwjT6ZqP-oXpAhW8TxUIHVm-A64QFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3xXXEd8nMmto1Pu3IHRTo5

Here's a systematic review published in The Lancet.

One of our local primary schools lost their head teacher just before lockdown to Covid. She wanted to shut the school earlier and they weren't allowed to close. Cases in that area are among the highest in the county.

It's impossible to maintain social distancing in schools. Until that can be solved, how can schools re-open safely?

I’ve not read the full thread- so I’m sure this has been said- but as a secondary teacher of many years experience you’re being hugely unrealistic if you think it’s possible to social distance in a large, modern school. 1500 kids in a school, narrow corridors, small classrooms. It won’t work.

Children are the SILENT CARRIERS out of everyone. The ones who spread it everywhere without showing symptoms themselves.this is not true
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/boy-with-covid-19-did-not-transmit-disease-to-more-than-170-contacts

YABVU it’s unfair to put children and staff at that sort of risk and then all the people they come into contact with also.

DC are at private school with very small class sizes (secondary). I think realistically they could manage to maintain social distancing because the school was built to house more pupils than it has. But I understand entirely that this is an exceptional case. I will admit that I want them to go back ASAP, but realise that whenever that is, there is going to be some risk involved.