AIBU to get a bit fucked off at having to protect the NHS?

[Santaclauswhosthat]

This is a healthcare system I've paid into all my life. I don't think everyone who works in it is a hero and the vast majority of them aren't underpaid. It's ranked 16th in the world and has the worst cancer outcomes for any developed country. It's not very good. Nonetheless it's the only healthcare system open to me right now. But I can't access it. My operation had been cancelled and I can't get a consultant appointment. The GPs aren't seeing patients face to face. I've already had one tumour removed that was on the turn. I'm worried that I may have another. I have no way of finding out if this is the case. A family member has already died of covid 19 after being denied treatment for three days during which repeated calls to the ambulance service were made whereupon his mother was told she should only ring again if his lips turned blue. He is dead. Right now. The NHS didn't protect him. It isn't protecting me either. What is the point of the NHS, exactly? Most clinics are closed or running at half mast. GPs aren't seeing anyone. NHS staff get shopping hours and free food and fuck knows what else and we are all dying protecting them.

@Xenia you cannot opt out of German health insurance it's a legal requirement. If you are a high earner you can opt out of the government scheme in lieu of a private health insurance scheme, but you must be insured. Those on very low income or receiving state benefits that their contributions paid by the government. Which then costs the government more over all in benefits/health insurance. Germany also pay differing rates of taxes in other areas also.
You also pay 5.5% solidarity tax and If you are a church member you pay 8-9% church tax on your income tax also. So in gemerany the average person pays much more in tax and health then we do in NI and income tax, which puts more money into the government to be able to run as well as it does and have such a bolstered health system.

Sorry that's what I meant, as said above - private scheme instead of the other. As upper UK marginal rates of tax are so high n ow they are likely to be that of Germany for higher earners eg UK top ate may be 45% tax and 2% NI - £47% but graduates may have 9% graduate tax on top of that taking them to 56% and some are in that band where you lose the single person allowance etc and your effective top rate is more like 63%.

@Xenia

You're not really answering the interesting question though are you.

Sorry, trying to work at the same time....... ( to pay the salaries of nurses etc...) what was the question?

In fact your last answer made me laugh.

You don't "need or use the NHS" and I simply asked

Do you have the mammograms, smears and are you and your family vaccinated?

Where would you go in an emergency or if you got cancer?

Personally I think we can probably speculate as to the answer since you don't reply.

I don't want to berate you for anything you say particularly but just to point out that "not getting ill " is not really the whole picture. So comes across as SO blinkered.

I am so very sorry for your loss, i think its a mixture the government has done a lot of screwing public services into the ground, making it hard for the good ones to help to the best of their ability. And, the no good nhs workers use it as a good excuse to be completely incompetent.

Sorry, trying to work at the same time....... ( to pay the salaries of nurses etc...) what was the question?
😁😁😁😁
my teens do this

Sorry, trying to work at the same time....... ( to pay the salaries of nurses etc...)

I expect you are one of those people who come out with "I pay your wages" when you don't get your own way. Abhorrent.

Sorry, trying to work at the same time....... ( to pay the salaries of nurses etc...)

🙄🙄🙄

80% of our use of the nhs cost wise is after we turn 70 (or 80, can remember but the point is there). We pay as an investment for our later lives. We might also become which cost patient at any time.

The German system gets more funds per capita, I've already posted the figures.

80% of our use of the nhs cost wise is after we turn 70 (or 80, can remember but the point is there). We pay as an investment for our later lives. We might also become which cost patient at any time.

I suppose if your parents didn’t use the NHS services from before your birth until you were 16-18 years old, you never have children, never needed a GP appointment / vaccination, then that could be true. But it’s not.

Haha, GP appointment, vaccinations, all together a couple of hundred pounds.

The average 65-year-old costs the NHS 2.5 times more than the average 30-year-old. An 85-year-old costs more than five times as much
These are facts.

As my parents died in their 70s I probably won't even have much end of life NHS use but we shall see. I have certainly paid enough into it to be entitled to some kind of gold plated super service......

Do you have the mammograms, smears [ No, I don't need or want or use those]

and are you and your family vaccinated? [ Yes although the last time I wanted this I had to pay £400 to get my twins the BCG as the NHS had stopped that - the cost of vaccinations will be presumably something like 0.00001% of the tax I pay]

Where would you go in an emergency or if you got cancer? [ possibly - I have never had one so cannot say. I have never been particularly against the NHS - I just want much lower taxes and a smaller state and some kind of recognition that if you are not over weight then you get a reduction or people have to pay the NHS in advance if they are over weight etc.]

Happy to answer any other questions. My parents had no NHS as children of course as it did not exist.

I also appreciate that is it not just because I do not smoke or drink nor eat junk food that I have not needed any medical far other than 7 minute appointment in the last 15 years. I am probably one of the luckiest 50 something women in the UK.

To be fair Xenia being slim, not smoking or drinking and eating well had no bearing on me developing graves disease at 28 or osteoporosis at 55.

...nor would it stop you getting something utterly devastating like Motor Neurone Disease

Well done that Labour government who scrapped GP fundholding just as it was beginning to work well and introduced PCTs and PFI

John Major introduced PFI, GP fundholding was a nightmare in poorer areas and resulting in GP practices simply shutting up shop.

The NHS has had ten years both of being cut and being fragmented to death by Hunt and latterly Hancock. Money which could have been spent on modernising business practices and actual health care.

I'm completely agnostic on the delivery model of health care, I agree we can certainly learn from successful practices in Europe (and vice versa). But lets not pretend this is just about the delivery model when we spend less per head on health care than just about any other developed country and the driving forces behind privatising are all promoting the US model.

@Xenia "I have certainly paid enough into it to be entitled to some kind of gold plated super service" + "I had to pay £400 to get my twins the BCG as the NHS had stopped that - the cost of vaccinations will be presumably something like 0.00001% of the tax I pay"

£400 is 0.00001% of the tax you pay? So you've paid £4 billion in tax? You're either an idiot or a billionaire . I'm willing to bet it's the former and since you don't have the first clue on what you're talking about, I suggest you go chat this nonsense elsewhere.

www.germanyhis.com/
The German healthcare system is one of the oldest healthcare systems in the world, dating back to 1880s. The system is organized into two major divisions: Public and Private Health Insurance.

The link above explains really clearly how it works,.
It is based on the principle of solidarity. All people insured by a public health insurer receive the same medical care regardless of their financial status. This is achieved through an income-based common fund where everyone contributes to.

Some people who earn enough can opt to pay a private health insurer (instead of the compulsory public health insurance premiums) but there are some disadvantages to that which are explained in the link above.

One thing I was not aware of is that Germans (except those who use a private health insurer) all get really good sick pay -
When a person gets ill his/her employer is legally required to pay him/her a specific proportion of his/her salary to be able to cover mandatory health insurance costs.

*When a person gets ill his/her employer is legally required to pay him/her a specific proportion of his/her salary to be able to cover mandatory health insurance costs.

Under current rules, an employee who is unable to work will be paid fully for up to six weeks. For the next three years after that, the employer will pay 70% of his/her salary. In other words, current statutory sick pay in Germany is up to €3,045 or around €2,700 after taxes are subtracted. Sick pay insurance might be offered under private health insurance scheme, but benefits are certainly much limited*.

German Healthcare Statistics
Based on official statistics, more than 70 million residents or around 90% of the entire population in Germany are entitled to statutory health insurance.

Currently, 110 accredited health insurance providers (Krankenkassen) operate in Germany. There were more of them but some faced bankruptcy and some others merged together.

Germany has the highest health expenditure per capita (4,019 euro).

Latest statistics show that as of 2017 health expenditure in Germany is 376 billion euros, 4.7% more than in the previous year. This means health expenditure in Germany per each day exceeds a billion.

Germany spends more than 11% of its GDP on the national health care system. The EU average is around 9.6%.

Where would you go in an emergency or if you got cancer? [ possibly - I have never had one so cannot say.

You costed the price of a vaccine but you haven't costed the price of A&E existing and being ready to receive you.

Because really if you are knocked down on a run tomorrow ( and of course I hope you will never be ) that is where you will be taken by the ambulance.

If you find a lump ( again I hope you never do) you will be directed to the NHS and it's oncologists and surgeons, who are already trained and operational just in case it does happen to you.

Really it is irrelevant that you have only had a few mins in front of a GP.

Clearly you feel you pay too much tax but It comes across much more as I'm alright Jack.

I have certainly paid enough into it to be entitled to some kind of gold plated super service......

That's not how it works. If you want that, bugger off to America.

I had two children by emergency c section. I reckon that has cost the NHS more than I will pay in. Plus my kids have injections, dental treatment, opticians etc again free for them and they will not be paying that back until they start work in their late teens early 20s.

Everyone, including Xenia will be paying more tax in the future. The NHS and other public services need huge amounts of funding to improve the services offered. We are incredibly lucky that the NHS is free to all at point of service.

I agree my 0.0001 or whatever was an exaggeration but the bottom line if 25% iof us are net payers into the system for tax, welfare benefits tc etc I am sure my 7 minute GP appointment in the last 15 years cost me at least £100k in tax for a start. I have said I not against an NHS but taxes have got extremely high recently with none of the tax breaks my doctor father had in the 1970s on his then high taxation such as large married man's allowance, child tax allowances, covenanted money net of tax, mortgage interest tax relief - all been stripped away and yet we still have upper rates of almost 50% in income tax never mind much much higher indirect taxes like 20% VAT. VAT was 10% in 1973.

In this adulation of the God of the NHS we all need to remember not everyone supports the NHS and that plenty of people would prefer a different system. Eg Ireland provides - "Emergency care is provided at a cost of €100 for a visit to the Accident and Emergency (A&E) department, if one has not attended a GP first. " That sounds like a good scheme... "GPs generally charge on a per consultation fee basis, usually charging anything up to €65, depending on the region. People with Medical Cards or GP Visit Cards are exempt from charges. About 60% of the population have to pay up front in cash"

Anyway I am sure in life only death and taxes are absolutely certainties and that in 2020 that those of us who pay huge amounts of tax will be paying masses more too as will lower paid people too to fund all this debt we have chosen to taken on.

Nope Xenia your 7 min GP didn't cost you that.

It's also having A&E ready and waiting for you.

May be then we should get hero of the nation stickers or a bunch of flowers for not wasting the resources of the NHS and for paying X amount of tax. I certainly do not currently feel like a massive tax hike next year. Whereas when we all felt in this together, all getting child benefit rich or poor, my doctor uncle even got a council house in the 1940s) it was a different kettle of fish.