AIBU to get a bit fucked off at having to protect the NHS?

[Santaclauswhosthat]

This is a healthcare system I've paid into all my life. I don't think everyone who works in it is a hero and the vast majority of them aren't underpaid. It's ranked 16th in the world and has the worst cancer outcomes for any developed country. It's not very good. Nonetheless it's the only healthcare system open to me right now. But I can't access it. My operation had been cancelled and I can't get a consultant appointment. The GPs aren't seeing patients face to face. I've already had one tumour removed that was on the turn. I'm worried that I may have another. I have no way of finding out if this is the case. A family member has already died of covid 19 after being denied treatment for three days during which repeated calls to the ambulance service were made whereupon his mother was told she should only ring again if his lips turned blue. He is dead. Right now. The NHS didn't protect him. It isn't protecting me either. What is the point of the NHS, exactly? Most clinics are closed or running at half mast. GPs aren't seeing anyone. NHS staff get shopping hours and free food and fuck knows what else and we are all dying protecting them.

The NHS isn't perfect, but we spend less on publuc healthcare than many other countries. The UK is the 2nd lowest healthcare spender in the G7.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

In 2011 it was hailed as the most cost effective system in the world. Unfortunately cuts have seen Trusts use 'slash and burn' approaches, leading to longer term issues recruiting and huge sums spent on agency fees and external budget consultants.

@LagunaBubbles I'm not talking needing routine appointment. GPs are the gatekeepers to other services. What are we meant to do if they won't see us for a new medical issue. My daughter is a baby, 3 months old. This could affect her life and to me they don't care. And no I'm not a first time mum, my older child has probably only been to the doctors twice apart from jabs and he's four, once was for croup and sent to A&E the other for breathing difficulties. So I'm not overreacting thank you !

I must add to my comment, it’s fault is are mainly not down to the health professionals themselves it’s down to the government.

Underfunded, low moral, and a general lack of appreciation.

If a certain department such as cancer care/treatment isn’t fit for purpose we need to review & adjust but the government does not want to pay anymore £ into the system. I would not mind paying more £ out of my salary for a better healthcare system. However I have a feeling many would not

YANBU. I hate the NHS and the weird religious cult that has grown up around it. It's absolute shit and we pay through the nose for it. There are far, far better systems in Europe that involve some measure of private health insurance.

I'm sorry for your struggles OP. Dealing with the NHS on top of your illness is like mental torture. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

We pay through the nose for it

No we really don't.

The problem is ' The NHS' is a huge complex healthcare system. To make sweeping negative comments about ' it' is unfair.
Maybe if the govt and people listened to clinicians more things would improve.
I'm out if this thread - it's full
If anecdotal stories it's hard to comment on as we don't know the background and it seems to be a mouthpiece for mean mindedness.
If you want a paying healthcare system - I'm sure your wishes will be granted soon. But mark my words it won't be superior and it will be on top of current taxes.

Kingofkings I really don't see this thread as a 'mouthpiece' for meanness- sorry if you believe that. People are just talking about very honest experiences. I just think that the recent talk of the NHS Heroes in quasi-religious terms is simply nonsense and needs to be countered by actual facts on the ground. I will also leave this thread now....

People have been quite rude - not just the way I feel - but there's no context to the stories.

I repeat anyone with a medical emergency needs to seek immediate medical attention or attend AE.

I wonder how most people would survive in a pay as you go health care system.
I get 4 prescriptions a months, which costs me approx £100 per year on prepaid certificate.

If I paid per item I would pay over £1000+ per year. Then add in blood tests, routine nurse appointments, if I didnt have them they woulsnt be able to continue prescription the mediation I need to LIVE. So ultimately I would die as I couldn't afford to live.

Likewise In america a baby costs between £10000-30000 in medical/midwives, so who could actually afford to have children, and how much would our rate of infant and parent mortality shoot up because people cant afford medical care?

And health insurance is great... if you dont have preexisting health conditions. I attempted to in the UK get private medical care and life insurance on a whim, and found out it was impossible due to preexisting life long conditions. I wouldnt have been able to receive any care relating to any previous conditions, and unfortunately if they wanted to be difficult they could blame most illness on my previous health conditions (although physically I'm very healthy). So a majority of people woulsnt be able to access healthcare or it would be at a huge premium most people cant afford.

If people already live hand to mouth where on earth is £200 pm ment to come from to pay for health insurance?

dontdisturbmenow

Dp has type 1 diabetes.

Ended up
Being diagnosed by a friend after going to the doctors for months after he started to lose weight and get very thirsty and get sugar cravings.

Dr on one visit by which time he had lost 7 stone and looked gaunt told him he was under stress.

Likewise In america a baby costs between £10000-30000 in medical/midwives, so who could actually afford to have children, and how much would our rate of infant and parent mortality shoot up because people cant afford medical care?

It doesn’t have to be one or the other of two extremes though. It’s not just the NHS on one side of a coin and the American system on the other - many countries have found a sensible middle ground between the two, leaning much further towards our NHS system than the American model.

But the systems in other countries work due to the differences in society, for example a paid system in the UK is almost impossible in any level due to horrific levels of austerity and poverty. Therefore the people who need it most, and have the highest costs, would be the ones who cant afford it.
Someone who receives disability benefits who would in some cases have high medical costs could not afford to then pay medical Bill's while affording to live. Most people on disability (PIP) cant afford to live anyway.

If you have personally been through those real life issues OP, you should be going public, wearing your ‘flag’ prominently rather than hiding behind the anonymity of a non- serious chat forum.

If you think a user pays system that actually operates according to market forces will serve you better.....you are very foolish indeed.

Once again I can only heartily wish that every person on MN who is not just smarter and more knowledgeable than every doctor they’ve ever met but who is also a better person in every way would just go to medical school and show us all how it’s done. What a relief it would be.

Well fir starters in the NHS everyone is treated the same. In a paying system your payments depend on your existing health issues. So if you have a health problem or five or ten your premiums will be very high. This means the vulnerable will have reduced care.

While we have such a individualistic society and a government that only cares about keeping the rich richer, it would be impossible for any health care system to be put in place that wouldnt be detrimental to those who needed it the most.

Personally I think underfunding the NHS to this extent, making people angry at its failing and thus causing people to call for a more privatised model of healthcare is exactly what the government want as a excuse to continue to gradually privatise healthcare (large amounts of the NHS are already under private health care providers which then charge the NHS to use its services, hence causing even more underfunding in the NHS). The problem is I dont trust BoJo to not move to a america style system considering how pally and in talks with america he already is, and how a lot of the stipulations with america trade revolves around selling off parts of the NHS and allowing health insurers to gain influence in the UK.

Many of the health systems we are discussing thr UK could follow are EU health systems, but BoJo has made it very clear he will not consider anything related to the EU (lack of PPE EU initiative anyone?). So it seems the only other option they will consider is getting into bed with America. Which would be absolutely horrific for the UK (I have Americans married into the family who moved to the UK).

Paid health care system*

Oh yes definitely -Jeremy Hunt has written a book on it.That is the plan.

It makes me so damn angry that people are either so damn blinkered or ignorant to the facts they will just nod and agree to all the propaganda that's being twisted without actually thinking or seeing the glaringly obvious facts.

It's like watching a country of sheep be led to slaughter through there own making. And the problem is those sheep will take those of us who are aware of the reality down with them.

Its terrifying.

I don't get why nhs workers get discounts and priority...not all of them are working on covid wards saving lives...vast majority aren't. Many will be doing admin, reception, back office type stuff. Do they deserve discounts and priority over care workers? Not to mention the economy is fucked so they are probably far more secure financially than other people.

The govt has an agenda- the NHS is too expensive they want to privatise it. As HCPs we know they can and should improve it and listen to us re more beds and staff. We are fighting for it because it's very good apart from the govt trying to run it down. We are fighting for it fir the poor and vulnerable who use services a lot. But the ( mainly privileged) public take it for granted and don't believe us so the payment system will change. What people don't get is that it will be the same hospitals, doctors and nurses. Don't be fools people fight for your free care. It happened in dentistry but it will cost a lot more for health.

Littlefox, I have seen my GP for 7 minutes in 15 years. I would get very very far with no NHS and a paying system. I also have paid hundreds of thousands in income tax 20% of which funds the NHS. If my income tax were reduced by 20% of the total sum I pay I would be utterly delighted.

One thing I hope we can get out of this crisis and the depression and lack of money that will follow might be a new health system not free at the point of access and with insurance being very hard to obtain if you drink too much or are over weight which would be much fairer all round.

I don’t understand how simply changing the way healthcare is funded can make a difference to outcomes, can those who are advocating say a German style model explain why this is the case please?

On the face of it if we were to stop employee and employers NIC and start paying those contributions to an insurer instead for healthcare insurance, with the government paying for all economically inactive people’s insurance and some wealthier people choosing to purchase additional insurance for better service, how is that different to what happens in the U.K. already? Except of course that the insurers take their cut.

Our healthcare system is often compare to Germany as being poor value but they actually spend more on healthcare than we do. We spend £2989 per person and they spend £4432 per person.

It’s more than time to move to one of the European models, the outdated, inefficient bureaucratic NHS had its day many years ago. Europeans don’t worship their health service in the same way some British people do with the NHS, they just expect it to work properly.
I really don’t understand the peculiar attitude in the UK. It’s very little Englander, ‘no other country does a health service like us’ - no, they do it better.

Income tax will stay the same.