To think the standard of learning in a special secondary school ,will mean few pupils sit GCSEs

[Kickanxietyinthebeanbag]

We have a place at a special secondary school for next school year
When visiting we were told the students that reach the correct level can sit GCSEs
My teacher friend says many won’t reach that standard because the standard of teaching will be low in the class,.due to disruption and children being behind.
so a year 9 student most likely won’t be doing year 9 work ,because the students won’t be up to that level ,therefore won’t reach the standard needed to sit exams.
Another friend who’s child goes to that school says ,children are allowed to wander the corridors,if they don’t want to go to a lesson ,as the school wants them to want to learn ,not force them to learn.
In which case my child would choose to never attend a lesson .
I’m so torn ,on what to do
I wondered if anyone had any experience of special schools they could share .
Sorry to post in AIBU ,I just wanted to catch people who may not post on SEN boards

I pressed no ,to voting,don’t know Why it’s there

Surely it depends on what the special school is for, and the reasons for your DS being there?

e.g. A school for kids with learning difficulties will be different from a PRU and might be different again from a school for children with profound physical difficulties.

Ah yes sorry ,it’s a specialist autism school

Our local autism school has two streams of students, ones that will do GCSEs and ones that won't. My son went to a normal secondary but with an autism provision - he sat and passed his GCSEs without the support and provision he wouldn't have stood a chance

Any child who qualifies for special secondary school will be significantly behind same age peers. They will also have complex learning needs (regardless of whether they fall into the moderate/ severe learning difficulties category). For the vast majority of children, their lag behind their peers will have developed over the previous years, as the gap widened.

To suggest that those pupils will be able to catch up and perform at 'pass' level at GCSE is unrealistic. They would have to learn at a greater pace than NT peers to close the gap.

DD1 goes to SS. She has 6 lessons per day in discrete subjects. She is expected to work hard. She won't get GCSEs, but she'll do adapted qualifications.

Many children in special needs schools have learning disabilities so will not be able to sit GCSEs, but that's not the fault of the teachers (who in my experience tend to be some of the most dynamic and dedicated teachers around).

My sister for example has Downs, with severe speech and communication difficulties. At school she was mainly working on P scales (so pre national curriculum level), she can copy letters for example and write her name but isn't literate in any meaningful sense. Her teachers were remarkable.

What is your question? Is it whether you should accept the place at this school or stay in mainstream?

If so, that depends on how you think your DC would manage in mainstream. If they are so stressed they end up school refusing they may not get any GCSEs at all.

I guess they know best what works for the profile of pupils they have.

If a child with autism does not 'fit' with mainstream education they may well feel that 'forcing' them into classes is often not the way to get the best out of them, and a more softly softly approach may work better?

To be honest I think you need to talk to the individual school specifically about your DS and go from there. They will no doubt focus on English & Maths and maybe science. They are unlikely I would think to be offering a full range of GCSEs you would find in mainstream. However they will want the best for every child.

Do they actually teach by year group, or with much smaller classes which can be differentiated to the child's needs?

I think your friends are not being very helpful!

Did you look round the school when deciding where your dc would attend? I suggest that come September, arrange a visit on a day when the students are in. Have your questions ready to discuss. In my experience, your dc may well take some GCSEs, if they are academically capable. They will then be supported into further / higher education more so that if they attended a mainstream school.
As a Senco, I've worked with a couple of specialist settings around y6-7 transition and have alsways been very impressed with the provision.

In lots of special schools the standard of learning is well below the actual chronological age because the children have learning difficulties and it's appropriate for them to be working at the level that is right for them rather than their chronological age -this is why they are at a special school

If they are at an semh or behaviour provision then they may or may not have a learning difficulty (a high proportion do) but they may have large gaps in their learning due to missing chunks of education, behaviour as a barrier to attending lessons etc etc -it's therefore also right that these gaps are addressed rather than pushing on at age related expectations

Attending lessons is not optional in special schools but it is recognised that not all pupils are ready to learn at the time the timetable states so different provision is put in place -this is particularly true in schools that have a nurture ethos

Teachers want the best for their pupils and have high aspirations for them. If the capability is there for accessing gcse then being in a special school is not a barrier to accessing them.

I can’t really see that’s there’s any other way around the fact that specialist schools will almost never be able to provide the same academic curriculum as a mainstream school, regardless of the aptitude of individual pupils.

The children attend school for the same hours as mainstream pupils do, yet have (essential) therapy classes, behaviour management lessons, communication and socialisation lessons, life skills classes, etc, etc to fit in ALONGSIDE ALL academic lessons as well.

Simply put, there’s not enough hours in the day.

For many children who attend a specialist setting the emphasis is on preparing them for a degree of independent living (cooking, managing money, short interactions, appropriate social behaviour), for many it’s the main access points to therapy lessons (OT, physio, music, art, anger, other holistic therapies).

It’s a balance that will almost always tip in favour of teaching life skills and wellbeing approaches to pupils as for most who NEED to attend a specialist setting, these skills are what must be prioritised.

Its shit, but such is life.

Any child who qualifies for special secondary school will be significantly behind same age peers

I'm sorry but whilst this might be true for the majority of cases, it is definitely not true for all.

However it is extremely difficult to find a special school that does cater for the academically able and not behind children with special needs that need a special school place.

My son has been out of school for 3 years ,he’s not behind,the provision of special Ed in my area is diabolical,hence I’ve had to teach him myself for last 3 years
No one is allowed to view the school while the children are present .so alll I’ve seen is the building,I can’t judge if he will fit or not .
He’s high functioning,with a diagnosis of Autism .

I must say that I do disagree with the assertion that most children in specialist settings will have some degree of learning disability that prohibits them from accessing a mainstream curriculum. There are swathes if pupils who are very capable academically who with extremely tailored support could access a mainstream curriculum WITHIN a specialist setting, these pupils are so very often overlooked as it’s a rare setting that can manage their needs.

Any child who qualifies for special secondary school will be significantly behind same age peers

"I'm sorry but whilst this might be true for the majority of cases, it is definitely not true for all.
^
However it is extremely difficult to find a special school that does cater for the academically able and not behind children with special needs that need a special school place."^*
*
I was agree with the statement in reply to the above bolded message. SENCO has suggested my son apply for special autism secondary schools however he is above in all areas of the curriculum. He will not be able to cope with a large secondary school even with autism provision in the school but it's not the actual work he has a problem with, he should definitely be sitting GCSE's.

Like others have said, it is hard to find provision for an academically able child with SN, especially ASD. I kept my DS in mainstream for that reason, though the school, urged on by some parents, did what it could to force him out when he was 10. Five years on and I am glad I resisted, though that may not work for everyone.

My DD will study 3 vocational subjects in KS4 as well as core subjects. She's going to do hospitality, art and performing arts.

Agree with pp's that SS provision for academically capable children is rarer than hen's teeth. My DS will not achieve his academic potential, because mainstream school isn't adaptive enough and SS would have not been academically stretching enough. There isn't an inbetween option. We were able to fudge things a little in primary by sending him to a tiny rural school with only 5 classes, which was able to cater for his needs 'by accident' as it were, but that kind of option isn't available in secondary.

That said, we weren't offered the option of a high school with an autism base, which is like an add-on autism specialist unit within a mainstream high school. I think if we had then that would definitely have been something we would have gone for, so it's perhaps worth seeing if anything like that is available in your area OP?

I will have to home Ed If I don’t take the place ,there were supposed to be visits over the summer term ,where I could of hopefully got a feel of the place to see if he would fit .but that’s not possible now obviously.
I’m worried that he will be enrolled in September without any visits ,and then if it’s not working I need permission to remove to home school .
We had one parent visit to an empty school ,then told we had the place.my son wasn’t allowed to view with us

I would expect a special school to be very good at transitions OP. They'll start him slowly with visits etc. And as far as I'm aware, you don't need 'permission' to homeschool, you just de-reg and crack on with it.

Most local authorities differentiate between 'special' schools and 'specialist' settings.

In general, pupils who access a special school will have learning difficulties. This may be alongside a range of other complex needs.

Pupils who are cognitively able might access a specialist school or setting. This more usually applies to autism and SEMH, but also SpLD, hearing impairment etc. Some authorities have separate specialist schools, others cater for these pupils in specialist provision attached to mainstream.

OP, is you question rather whether to accept the school place or continue to home ed?

Where are you? If you're in Hampshire, I know the schools quite well. Feel free to PM.

I know my son ,he’s a bundle of anxiety,so lessons full of disruption will mean he can’t learn .he needs calm and quiet to learn .hes not a difficult child ,he’s an anxious child .

I'm not an SEN teacher but I work in a mainstream primary with a resource bas for children with ASD and part of my role is supporting parents with secondary transfer. Obviously I don't know your child or the school, or your area, but where we are (London) it is practically impossible to get a place at a special school, and even harder to get one if you have already turned one down. If you don't accept the offer, and your child doesn't cope in mainstream, it will be very hard to switch to special later as the place will have been taken.

In a mainstream school children with SRN get very little support as funding has been cut back so much. In the primary I work in, there is a separate admissions process for places in the resource base and some parents ignore this and apply for a mainstream place, thinking that we will support their child in base. We can't and their child gets as much support as we can give them but it's nothing compared to what they would get in a base or special school.

What I am getting at is that if you accept a mainstream place the school will probably not have any resources to give your child extra support, so they are likely to find it very hard to cope.

Support in primary schools is minimal due to funding but schools will often go above and beyond to support children with SEN. Secondaries really don't in the same way.