To ask how bailiffs ever get people to pay

[howtoenforce]

Long time MNetter nc'd in case the debtor's wife is a mnetter!

Posting in aibu for traffic as posts in legal don't seem to get read much!

I finally got a CCJ against someone who'd conned me by taking money upfront and then refusing to provide the service paid for. The amount is about £3,000 and the debtor is a homeowner but self employed. I know that he's far from broke and could afford to pay but thinks if he ignores it all then it will go away.

It's great that I've got the judgment but I don't understand how bailiffs would be able to enforce it when the debtor just refuses to open the door to them. I was hoping someone else with experience of enforcing a judgment could tell me whether bailiffs were able to help or if you found enforcing a different way worked better.
Thank you!

If they have a car then that can be removed and sold. Worst case, the bailiffs don't get anything and you have to put a charge on the house.

In your case a charge on the house would be best. Cars can be felt with via be in other names or only parked on others privately owned driveways/garages or being on finance/blue badges.

Bailiffs only get money though fear. If a person in debt knows the laws though and though they won’t get enough to be able to levy the debt at all and that’s if they managed to get in the house. They cannot jump fences etc to gain entry. They cannot go into children’s bedroom. They cannot take excessive more than the debt so a 5k debt they cannot take someone’s brand new Tesla.

They also cannot take laptops/xboxes/smart phones/smart watches/smart TVs. Sofas etc that don’t have fire tags. The lift of what they cannot do is huge.

Thank you for replying, so you think bailiffs getting any money out of people isn't so effective with people who are very blasee and just refuse to open the door? It might be better to put a charging order on the house?

The bailiff I instructed was persistent. He went at about 8pm and found him in the house. Was very sweary about it all but sure enough with a payment plan I got my £3500 back.

There is an enlightening programme on TV called 'Can't pay?We'll take it away'. It's quite interesting to see the bailiffs methods.

Are you using the Court Bailiffs (Warrant of Control) it the High Court Bailiffs (Writ if Control?

Have you read Court Form EX321?

They mainly get the cash because people realise that it is the end of the road of avoidance, plus fear/embarrassment.

I was looking up how to get a high court writ but I was just wondering what would happen if the guy barricades himself in his house and refuses to open the door, as they can't force entry.
Given that he's refused to cooperate with anything so far (other than to tell me to leave him alone and stop harassing him - because I sent him a letter before claim) I'm not expecting him to be prepared to talk to bailiffs, but I could imagine him telling them it's all a big misunderstanding, he shouldn't have had a judgment made against him blah blah - I'm sure they've heard it all before

If he's behaving like this already you'll probably need to seek redress from the high court.

Agree with Pepoermint.

@JiltedJohnsJulie I was reading the court paper ex321 earlier with the list of options for enforcement but I hoped people could tell me the most effective means they'd found when actually carrying out enforcement of a judgment.

An attachment to earnings order would have been good but he's self employed so I don't think that would work.

I'm not sure about the third party debt order and if it would work with a self employed person

It would be awful if he can just con people and then hide away in his house and refuse to pay if they've gone as far as to get a judgment against him. I hope the embarrassment factor would help as he relies on having a "good reputation" to get people to think he's reputable and hire him

@JiltedJohnsJulie @peppermintcapsules sorry I meant to - could you two possibly tell me what you meant by high court redress?

A High Court Writ.

We got a charge against someone’s property about 10 years ago after a CCJ. The guy that owed us money transferred the property into his brothers name and we never got a penny.

I've watched the show (if that's accurate) they will attend on several occasions if needed to catch him in then won't leave until they've recovered goods or cash or a payment plan at a minimum. Threatening to take their expensive car usually does the trick to get them to stump up the cash and they clamp it to make it 'theirs'

@JiltedJohnsJulie @@ could you two@Daisyhut that's awful - I'm so sorry. Was the property subject to a mortgage? It's really disappointing how difficult it seems to be to get someone to pay up even if you have a judgment against them

High Court Enforcement was my living until a few years ago. I am still connected very strongly to the industry.

Debtors refusing to engage does not mean game over. It's actually the worst thing anyone can do when in debt.

If the only address you have for this person is a domestic address then yes there are restrictions to entry but it's not impossible.
There are external assets that can be assessed and removed if needed. Outbuildings not directly attached to the property can also have entry forced to assess and levy assets.

If you are seeking to get a High Court Writ then I strongly advise you have a good look at ALL the companies out there to decide who can best recover your money.
Personally, the company involved in certain TV programmes that many know would NOT be my first choice!!

The PP who said that bailiffs can only recover money by fear is perhaps thinking of very old and outdated practices. It should certainly not be the case these days and Judges take a very dim view of Agents who make threats to debtors in order to cause fear.

If asset recovery is not a workable option then there are other paths that a good enforcement company will be able to advise you of. These might include a charging order, bankruptcy petition or attachment of earnings to name but a few.
It will largely depend on your debtors situation and type of self employment (i.e. sole trader, ltd company etc).

In short, you need to have a good look around the enforcement companies. They will help guide you to the best path of recovery and help transfer your Judgment to the High Court.

At the moment physical enforcement is not happening due to the current circumstances so you have time to get a clear view of what you can do.

Agree with what WhenDoesTheWashingEnd said.

Would also add that very few people think that enforcement agents will ever turn up and start removing their goods/car. (Especially people who have money in the first place.)

A clamp on at 6am and the idea of the street seeing their cars being removed (tow truck will be added too the bill) by 8:30an often focuses their mind.

I was just wondering what would happen if the guy barricades himself in his house and refuses to open the door

He just needs to make sure that the doors and windows are locked at all times, including the back ones, if it's easy to get into the back garden.

When DP was with his ex, they sued the builder who had totally fucked up putting in a new kitchen. It was £11k, they had to use bailiffs and it took them 5 years to get the money. It was all paid in dribs and drabs.

Threatening to take their expensive car usually does the trick to get them to stump up the cash and they clamp it to make it 'theirs'

Which is why dodgy types so often make sure that cars are registered in other people's names and at other people's addresses, and they just "borrow" them.

The debt would need to be over £5k to issue a bankruptcy petition. Is the CCJ in his name or a company’s?

A car can only be seized if there’s no finance on it.

Inbox me, if you have their bank account details I have a plan for you