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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

'Unorthodox' anyone watched it?

64 replies

Rubyupbeat · 24/04/2020 06:35

I found it very emotional , based on a true story, up until she leaves America.
My cousins wife did the same thing, from the same community, but to Britain, her and her sister. My parents took them in and that's how they met my cousin, this was 25 years ago. We are all very close and things she told me were mirrored in the series. They also had people coming over trying to take them back. Her sister sadly committed suicide which I believe was due to her having her children taken away , at the time there was 3 under 2, all babies and she was only 19.
Also, if you do watch, make sure you watch the making of' it's just very interesting.

OP posts:
DoolinEnnis · 24/04/2020 06:37

I have watched it & really enjoyed it. I read online as well that there are sone other books around but also the response from people who knew the author who claim is has been sensationalised.

PlaygroundReviews · 24/04/2020 06:42

Apparently the true story is that she stayed in New York for a few years before going to Germany. I really enjoyed the series though, we skipped the making of bit so will take your tip to watch it.

MontysOarlock · 24/04/2020 06:45

The show didn't want to infringe on the author's life after she left America so the moving to Berlin happened but what happens there is fictional out of respect.

Everything featured for the America part I fully believe as I have always been interested in extreme religion and have read a lot over the years. I am trying not to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen it. But an incredible story.

There is also The Making of Unorthodox" on Netflix too with interviews. Really worth a watch.

LipstickLoves · 24/04/2020 06:48

I really enjoyed it too and have started to listen to the audio book it's based on.

I really loved Esty, the actor that plays her was fantastic

KC225 · 24/04/2020 06:55

That is so sad about your relative. 25 years was only 1995 and not that long ago. It must be so difficult for people to escape these closed communities. Have you seen 'One of Us?'

I watched it. I was fascinated by the glimpse into her life in New York and how stifling it must have been. The wedding by scenes were quite extraordinary. I felt the thread about the music college and switching to singing at the last moment was a bit cheesy and trying to shoe horn in a happy ending.

The documentary was good, 6 minks to make one hat.

OP do you know why they put tin foil over kitchen when it was passover (I think). I was hoping they would say in the documentary.

MargotMoon · 24/04/2020 07:00

I googled the tin foil thing after watching it! It's so they don't consume any traces of leavened products which is forbidden during Passover. I find the food rules fascinating. It's explained better here: www.distractify.com/p/why-do-orthodox-cover-kitchen-in-foil

Will watch the making of documentary, sounds interesting.

Rubyupbeat · 24/04/2020 07:14

@KC225 Yes, 'I watched one of us' wasn't it so very sad?
The tin foil is like MargotMoon says, basically cleanliness, so that pass over food wont touch any surfaces that non passover food has been used for all year. They will also use foil on any non kosher kitchen they may have to use at other times.

OP posts:
MoseShrute · 24/04/2020 07:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons.

Peonyonpoint · 24/04/2020 07:22

Definitely read the book, it’s really good, also Disobedience by Naomi Alderman, also on same theme but set in London and she goes to NY!

Shtisel on Netflix is amazing series in the same kind of orthodox community in Jerusalem, shira haas who is esty has a leading part.

Fundamentalist forms of any religion are quite fascinating. Currently obsessed with quiverful families and fundie snark on reddit (not condoning some of the toxic comments made by posters about individuals) and surprised there hasn’t been a big mega drama about that.

Basically ultra-fundamental versions of all religions seem to really shaft women.

Peonyonpoint · 24/04/2020 07:23

@MoseShrute cross post! I LOVE shtisel, saving the second series for when I finish a big work project as ended up binge watching the first.

petrocellihouse · 24/04/2020 07:24

I watched it and really enjoyed it, but was still extremely sad and concerned that religion has such powerful sway over women in every aspect of their lives. Their bodies, their children, their freedom. Another really good recommendation is Shtisel on Netflix. Again, based on Hassidic families but far more illustrative of the complex dynamics of being devout and trying to be individual. It’s not boring and each episode brings new insights. Really enjoyable! (And yes, I did binge watch it during lockdown).

Helmetbymidnight · 24/04/2020 07:28

just finished watching it, beautifully done and the main character etsy was phenomenal- what a face!
i also am crushing very much on the german guy, crikey!
im so sorry to hear of your relative op, it must have been a painful watch for you. Flowers
moshe was a pig. i was so glad of the ending.
yes, i enjoyed 'disobediance' too and 'the two lives of eliza bloom' by beth miller covers some of the same areas.

Peapod29 · 24/04/2020 07:28

I found this very gripping and very interesting. I had no idea how strict this sect was and had no idea how awfully women are treated. Thanks for mentioning the tin foil, I also wondered about that.

Seapink2 · 24/04/2020 07:47

I agree with the other posters recommending Shtisel if you enjoyed unorthodox. For me Shtisel was of those series you feel a bit sad when you have reached the end and you want more!

Season 3 was due to start filming prior to lockdown, I’ve seen a clip of a few of the main actors saying they were due to start but now isolating. Can’t wait!

Thisisworsethananticpated · 24/04/2020 07:51

Binged it yesterday !! Loved it
And as others said a very interesting view into a very private culture
Great actors

WhyCantIthinkOfAgoodOne · 24/04/2020 07:56

Yes I really enjoyed it - thought it was really well made and acted. I also read the book as I was curious about what the woman actually did on leaving the community and I would recommend that too.

peperethecat · 24/04/2020 08:21

I watched it and really enjoyed it, but was still extremely sad and concerned that religion has such powerful sway over women in every aspect of their lives. Their bodies, their children, their freedom.

I read an interview with the author of the book the series is based on. She said that when she went to college in New York and talked about her experiences her peers talked about her escaping from the patriarchy, and her response was, "Where were all the men in this patriarchy? It was mostly the women in my community who were oppressing me."

I thought that was interesting because yes, on the one hand, a lot of the rules clearly seem to have patriarchal roots. The way that so much importance is placed on bearing as many children as possible is a complicated issue. I think in their community, it's not so much about wanting to keep their women barefoot and pregnant for the sake of it, but more about wanting to replace the Jewish population killed in the Holocaust. But of course that necessarily means that women have to have lots of babies and so they are encouraged to marry young and have large families, and discouraged or forbidden from doing things which might interfere with that community goal.

There are other cultural aspects which - to my uneducated eye - do seem to be grounded in misogyny and don't really seem to have any logical justification. The idea that women aren't allowed to play music seems terrible to me. And the strict segregation of the sexes is so sad. The wedding scene where all the men were on one side of the curtain with their dancing and music, and all the women were on the other side just seemed so sad and unnecessary to me. And if young men and women aren't allowed to socialise and get to know each other before they get married, to me that seems like a recipe for lots of disastrous unhappy marriages. But then perhaps if you live in that community then your life revolves around your children and other women, and you might not really see your husband as anything other than the man who shares your bed at certain times of the month and otherwise does his own thing. Perhaps that's not so sad when everyone in your community is in the same kind of marriage. I can see how someone might find that normal, compared to someone in a non-religious culture who sees her husband as a stranger she shares a bed with and is envious of the other people she knows who are in healthy, loving marriages.

I thought the bed sharing rules were very peculiar. If the couple aren't allowed to share a bed until a week after the woman has stopped bleeding, then some women are going to miss their fertile window every single cycle. Seems rather counterproductive if your aim is to have as many babies as possible.

sashh · 24/04/2020 08:22

I really enjoyed it too. And the 'making of'.

I think the music school was a clever way to make a film (partially) in English set in Berlin. Having International students with English as their common language.

OP do you know why they put tin foil over kitchen when it was passover (I think). I was hoping they would say in the documentary.

When I lived in London I was in an area with a lot of Orthodox Jewish people (not ultra orthodox) and we would get leaflets through the door telling you how to clean and cover things for passover. We also got Matzo delivered.

peperethecat · 24/04/2020 08:27

Sorry, forgot to finish my train of thought.

So yes, a lot of it seems very misogynistic but actually it is the women who wield a lot of the actual power in these communities, and make sure that the rules are enforced. I don't think all of them can be described as participating in their own oppression. I think that if you are a woman in that community who likes or at least tolerates her husband, and has the social currency that comes with having married well and produced lots of children, you could be pretty powerful and probably quite happy with your life. If you don't fit the mould, however, it must be horrendous.

Echobelly · 24/04/2020 08:30

Watched the first 3 and loving it. I am Jewish and both fascinated and repelled by some of the aspects of the ultra-Orthodox. Like all extreme religions, it's pretty abusive - often people aren't taught English/the local language (interestingly, more commonly the men - the women may have to learn it as a necessity for some shops, hospitals etc) and it is veyr hard to leave the community. There was a heartbreaking documentary about it on Netflix a few years ago - those who leave often die by suicide of because of drug abuse, they just can't cope. And in New York, certainly, theres a tacit arrangement with the courts that fathers always get custody of children when women leave because it would be 'harmful for them to be separated from their community', so women who leave can't take their children - like Esty's mum.

Mucklowe · 24/04/2020 08:49

Shtisel is much better in terms of providing a more rounded and less fetishised view of Haredi and Hasidic communities. What Unorthodox fails to capture is the great warmth, love, and support that Ultra-Orthodoxy contains. I'm a progressive Jew myself, and obviously take issue with the treatment of women in the Haredi world, but we shouldn't lose sight of the comfort and solace people find in their way of life.

HandfulofDust · 24/04/2020 09:19

@Mucklowe To be fair I think orthodox just attempted to present the author's genuine experience of her community. Of course other people will have had different experiences.

TheWernethWife · 24/04/2020 09:26

I binged watched it and loved it, want to read Deborah Feldman's books now.

Traviis · 24/04/2020 09:29

There's some great comments here, and I think it's a shame they weren't made on the thread in Telly Addicts.

Helmetbymidnight · 24/04/2020 09:29

To be fair I think orthodox just attempted to present the author's genuine experience of her community.

Yes, yes, I think if you want a well-rounded view of a community, look to a good documentary: a fiction based on a memoir is telling a different story.