Care homes are private for profit businesses and should sort their own PPE?

[frillyfucks]

I don't understand why the government are getting quite such a grilling about the general lack of PPE in care homes, the vast majority of which are private for profit businesses.

Presumably care home operators came into this with the same knowledge base as the government did - surely as the owner of the business, the buck stops with them in terms of not preparing and ordering adequate PPE for their staff?

I know there are some LA run care homes, but my local FB page have got their pitch forks out for our village care home, run by a private for profit company who profited in the hundreds of thousands of pounds in the last financial year- surely the onus is on the company to properly equip their staff, and not the evil bastard government?

@Gtugccbjb

So did ours but that was months ago and if you use PPE effectively, changing gloves, masks and aprons as per the NICE guidelines it runs out alarmingly fast. And as a small provider it’s extremely hard to get orders fulfilled and delivered in time. They are prioritising chains, the NHS and also selling on en masse to eBay sellers who then sell small quantities of masks for example at a massive profit whilst also splitting boxes of 1000s into packs of 6 meaning they are no longer sterile.

It’s not always the care homes that have poor management and that is the blame of the lack of PPE. We are ok because we over ordered initially and also ordered direct from overseas but our lines of supply are disappearing frighteningly fast and without help accessing reliable suppliers of medical grade PPE things may look very different in three months time.

And it’s not just PPE, it’s antibac, trade sized bleach etc etc. It’s a daily battle to ensure lines of supply for the future.

That should read three weeks time!

I fucking hate threads like this. Yes, let's get at care homes, they are ALL run by millionaires and only for worthless old people anyway.
Thank you to people who run care homes and staff them. They are not all chains and 24hr care doesn't come cheap. Add in laundry, meals, entertainment, trips out etc I can't see a huge profit. How are they supposed to get hold of PPE anyway? A small home with 12 staff and 20 residents won't have much luck.

I've never even set foot inside a care home and I can't begin to imagine how horrendous it is at the moment.

Incredibly tough with minimal if not no support available I bet. Residents dying, staff risking their own lives to care for them. Watching people suffer. It's unimaginable.

And in response to the OP, it's neither the governments or the care homes fault there is a shortage of PPE. Everyone is doing the best they can but there's a global shortage.

Why do we always have to attach blame? It seems to be like everyone is doing their absolute best in a largely uncontrollable set of circumstances.

Yabu as it is primarily about availability, not cost.

Yabu. We are all in this situation together regardless of private care or council ran one. People are dying, staff are risking their life and you are begrudging them PPE.
As others have said the bigger the order the more chance of receiving it.
I bet private NH residents paid tax in their day.

Well, if you go down this route, then technically so are GP surgeries - they are private businesses, who are contracted to provide services to the NHS

This. People don’t realise that many aspects of the “NHS” are private companies the NHS contracts in. The cleaners won’t be NHS employees, they’ll be employed by a for-profit cleaning company who the NHS pays.

All NHS minor surgery here is done by a private clinic. The NHS contracts the company, which again is for profit.

My own department was sold as a business concern, employee contracts transferred out. The new employer now runs that dept and my ex colleagues are not employed by the NHS, despite still working for them.

Privatisation by the back door, buying in of services, has been happening for a long time now.

The NHS is dumping untreatable patients on care homes. Care homes are providing an essential service- it should never have been privatised. The residents are entitled to social care, as are the employees.

The government should absolutely bail them out. They are propping up the NHS in unforseen ways- they can’t furlough staff and claim the wages like other businesses either...

We are working with 3dcrowd.uk to help provide face shields to everyone from hospitals to bus drivers. The care homes are absolutely desperate.

PPE should have been organised nationally when the crisis first hit but so far the government have allowed a free for all

Presumably care home operators came into this with the same knowledge base as the government did

Huh? Of course they didn't.

So stock pilers and panic buyers of pasta are unforgivable, but care homes should stock pile PPE? Let's be realistic here, there is a global shortage of PPE. What is honestly better - for private businesses which provide NHS/social care services (care homes, GPs, dentists) to attempt to scrabble around and find their own PPE, with massive incentive to outbid one another and stockpile, or for it all to be government controlled? Which scenario benefits the country more?

I don't understand why the government are getting quite such a grilling about the general lack of PPE in care homes, the vast majority of which are private for profit businesses.

You do realise most GP practices are also private for profit businesses don't you where the GP are partners? Are you going to criticise them too????

PPE should have been organised nationally when the crisis first hit but so far the government have allowed a free for all

The Govt initially believed the NHS procurement managers had it covered - now that's clear they didn't, the Govt have had to step in.

Privatisation by the back door, buying in of services, has been happening for a long time now.

Well in the case of GP practices, it is a long time - in fact right back to the day the NHS was formed! They've always been private firms, the GPs insisted on it as part of the agreement to join the NHS.

Dentists, opticians, pharmacies, etc., are all mostly private firms working under contract and being paid directly by the NHS.

Then perhaps we should all do better by not voting in a government that continually erodes what the care homes receive for providing this care.

So just to clarify. You KNOW that care homes had huge stocks of PPE equipment in case of a pandemic, during the 13 years of Blair/Brown then do you??

Not only that but there is an overriding bias on this thread that all care homes are large and have the space to hoard PPE. Someone on here mentioned a "small" 20 bed home. Some homes, like my family's are only 5 or 6 bed homes. Some supported housing schemes only have 3 residents. My family's place is a bog standard Victorian Semi, luckily with a small outbuilding. They've already had to switch to buying from catering wholesalers because of the public panic buying and can only guarantee deliveries every fortnight and they are having to order bigger quantities than usual. Having boxes and boxes of PPE everywhere is a trip and a fire hazard even if you can stockpile and care homes are already feeling claustrophobic as it is.

It should be organised from the top down.

Another thing that no one on here has mentioned yet is that many private care homes, including my family's which is at breaking point, are having multiple requests daily from social care to provide staff for the social care run homes who are also at breaking point. We are being asked to take residents from social care homes as well as the NHS daily or asking if we can share PPE with them etc. It's not as black and white as people realise. We are all being expected to support each other whilst being at breaking point ourselves.

The BUPA care home my mum was in regularly ran out of pads. The staff hardly ever wore gloves or aprons and would make trips to the supermarket for wipes.
The staff were also first in line for the tea trolley stuffing all the biscuits and cakes in their gubs.
Never thought I would say this but thank god my mum has passed away and is not living in a care home just now.

It's a fallacy that providing residential based care is a fat cat business. Southern Cross- the largest went into receivership, FourSeasons is in trouble- its nearly gone under several times. And small care homes are closing in droves as they can't afford to adapt to regulation and legislation.

And the sector encompasses vastly different needs. From small residential homes or extra care units where there is no nursing care and residents are relatively independent, to full nursing care and EMI units where all residents receive some clinical intervention.

For years the NHS and the CCGs have commissioned care homes to look after people with chronical illnesses as its cheaper that keeping them in hospitals - so they are delivering NHS services

The PPE situation was a huge challenge. The big supplies prioritised the NHS and the bigger groups. They refused to take increased orders- and many tripled or more their prices. At the same time hundreds of Homecare companies and providers of complex community services were also desperately trying to find supplies. These sector have never needed such high levels of PPE and staff arent used to wearing it and wearing it safely. Gloves and aprons are the only standard kit.

And remember in ICU wards, patients are confined to a bed with a very small team of staff- a high patient staff ratio. Eating, elimination etc are done in the bed.

In a residential setting- exacerbated by patients with dementia- it was incredibly difficult to manage social distancing. Care staff and the meds nurses might be supervising and caring for dozens of patients. Dining in communal rooms, often trying to manage other condition and continence challenges.

People need to learn a litlle more about community care- half of all nursing and care hours happen outside the NHS

My aunt and uncle lived in 3. The first was run by RC nuns and was wonderful. It cost 1500 pounds a week for both of them (12 years ago) but the quality if the care, the level of privacy, dignity, consistency of staffing, medical care, food, spiritual and social care was fabulous.

Then she died and he moved to a council run home for people with his health problems- again it was really good quality care and cost £600 a week. Not as nice surroundings and not the same level of accommodation or privacy but the staff were wonderful and he was happy there and always treated with warmth, care and respect.

He developed dementia and had to move to another home - brand new build, run by a large northern chain. It cost £3200 a month plus £140 a week nursing fee which was the only bit that was paid for. So £3760 a month. I looked at every home within the local authority area that dealt with dementia patients. Every single one was horrible. This was the nicest by far. But what happened quickly was there was a rapid turnover in staffing because of the really low wages they paid, nothing was taken care of - they constantly lost his clothes, although all had his name sewn in. They lost his toiletries - I would buy 6 tubes of toothpaste, deodorant, shower gel, shaving stuff, shampoo and within 3 weeks it would be gone. There were some lovely staff but some awful quite nasty staff who treated residents with very little respect and made fun of them. The rooms smelled of urine. It got into trouble with the CQC and a new manager was brought in and over a period of 2 years it gradually improved.

He was there 7 years and by the time he died it was just over £1200 a week and was rated Good by the CQC.
The owners are millionaires, live in a huge house , drive very expensive cars and are Tory party donors.

In total he spent over £500,000 on his care. He spent the last 3 years of his life unable to speak, walk, feed himself, doubly incontinent, knowing no one, and sitting slumped in a wheelchair all day looking at nothing, paying £4,900 a month to do so. It was awful to see.

Adult social care should not be a business. It should be a social service that is part of our welfare state. No one should be creaming off profits from money given for the care of elderly, vulnerable people, or from those people's life-savings,

I've been printing PPE face Shields for care homes and GP's.
Delivered three sets of 60 to care homes so far and have plans to do many many more.
Unfortunately it's expensive to produce and takes a while to produce.
I've had to rely on people's generosity to be able to afford the materials.
Www.gofundme.com/mrbonham

@Pineapple1

Genuine question, and sorry to state the obvious, but did you actually ask whether these face masks were wanted or needed?

I’m seeing a lot of people on social media seem to have jumped on this 3d printing, but nowhere have I seen any official announcement requesting them, or even saying if they are suitable for their purpose...

PPE goes through fairly rigorous testing and has to meet quality control standards before it can be used in a clinical environment. Which none of this home made stuff will have done.

Have you taken it upon yourself to make and deliver these masks, or are you getting orders you’re fulfilling?

Our stores (biggish name in diy retail) can fully source ppe and pay for it

Face masks AND visors,gloves and sanitiser

It’s not been difficult

@bluebluezoo

Personally, I've called the organisations and asked if they are in need of any. They then normally ask how they work and about sterilisation.
I explain the details and they ask me to drop them down.

When they have seen them, they have been more than happy to use them. Even if its single shift use.

These may be home made, but their based off a European design which has been widely accepted.

Ive got requests for many more, not orders as that would imply a transaction. These are donated free of charge to the end user.

My school have produced and distributed over 3000 face visors using laser cutter. They have absolutely been asked for by various nhs staff including icu staff, midwives and huge numbers of domicilary home caring companies. And care homes.