AIBU to wonder how it happens?

[Dipsandcrisps]

I am fully expecting some people to come tell me IABU but I’m being brave and posting anyway.

AIBU to wonder how some women have ended up with partner that do the bare minimum in the household? I have been reading some of these threads and I just feel like asking were their partners always like this? Did they not see any warning signs whilst dating and prior to moving in together? Does lockdown give some partners a free pass to act like a complete arse?

I think growing up I watched my dad be quite controlling towards my mum and that cemented it for me, no one would ever treat me like I was a second class citizen in my own home.

For some background I am from a South Asian background and one generation ago (and even now sometimes!) it was accepted and expected that men ruled the household and women were there to serve and please the menfolk. Both me and my brothers continuously tried to convince my mum that the way my dad was so dismissive of her is not on but she maintains until this day that she is happy with their traditional (in her eyes) set up. It’s got to a point where if we pushed the issue any further it would be like we are coercing her to live her life as we want her to so another controlling relationship 🤷🏻‍♀️

My dad has in the last 10 years or so seen he was in the wrong and has apologised and makes much more of an effort to listen and support my mum. I feel way too little and way way too late but it sadly gives my mum the confirmation that her way was the right way.

Sorry some waffle there but AIBU?

How do you think it happens, OP?

Given that you watched it happen in your own home, what answers could you give to your own question?

Lots of reasons.

• People don't always show their true colours at the start of a relationship - they are on their best behaviour at first
• Warning signs are ignored or excused in the first flush of love
• People are conditioned by their family experiences
• People change

Surely the question here is, why are so many men behaving that way?

Why not ask why are there so many men that think behaving like that is acceptable?

makes no difference. They can think whatever they want, if they don't find anyone to listen, let alone accept it, they'll have to stop.

A LOT of women like to be martyrs. They pretend to want to share the load, but are awfully controlling in a stupid way: how many threads laughing because someone washes the spoons in the wrong order, or doesn't do things the right way, ie THEIR way.
If my DH was criticising my washing up, I wouldn't put foot in the kitchen for at least a month and let him deal with everything.

There was a thread about a husband taking his kids for the day, and the poster laughing at how incompetent he was: he took the wrong hat, gave lunch at the wrong time... the kids had a lovely time, the husband too, but the poster needed to find things to criticise.

Add the ridiculous pride in having a house a certain way: again, how many posters admit they have to frantically clean and tidy before a visitor comes around? You don't hear men do that...

It's not that hard to share the so-called "mental load" but many posters still want to have a say and their way.. they just can't let go.

I agree with PP. No woman goes into a relationship expecting this to be the reality and usually it’s too late when they find out how it is.

Why do we put so much emphasis on women for being responsible for ending up with someone feckless? Why isn’t this energy focused on pulling men (as a class) up on their behaviour?

My situation: I live with my ex and he probably isn’t the worst out there, but I’m still frustrated how little he can manage whilst working from home and caring for our son, and how much more I have to juggle. I will have some idea of what to look out for in the future now, but at 20 I had no idea what the future would like 12 years later in a situation we’ve never been in before.

Women can't control what individual men think or do. They can choose to only be with men who fulfill whatever criteria they are looking for though. Too often, women think that they can change a man - that this man is the right one for them, with a few major tweaks. Often the problem is the woman - the power is there is to end a relationship, if we choose to take it.

I completely blame the men too but I do think the fact that they get away with it gives them more ammunition, it also says a lot about their personality. I felt the same way about my dad.

ladybee28 I watched it happen in my own house and was deeply affected by it. My mum has always maintained she does not feel her husband has mistreated her and her culture says that a man and woman have their own respective roles to play. I know for a fact my dad continued with his controlling behaviour so easily as my mum never challenged it.

So given your answer above, what's your question?

I suppose the warning signs aren’t always there and people can change over time, it could just be gradual and so you end up getting stuck on a rut before you know it.
I don’t think YABU though. I often think the same and I wouldn’t agree that it’s victim blaming to say that, unless you are in a culture where forced marriage is practiced, marrying someone who is lazy and useless when you are aware that they are lazy and useless is a choice. Ideally no men should be like that of course - but some are and wishing that wasn’t the case is of little practical use. Those that are aren’t really cut out to be husbands and fathers in my opinion, but plenty of women seem keen on marrying them and making babies with them. If a man was lazy and useless I would find that incredibly unattractive - I wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole, never mind marry him and make babies there are great men out there who are not like that - I think some women just don’t realise that and make do with what they think is all that’s on offer. It may just be down to lack of self confidence that they think they won’t find better.

Why are you shifting blame to the woman? Why not ask why are there so many men that think behaving like that is acceptable?

This.
However I agree it's depressing how many women do stand for it

A friend was upset the other day because her husband hadn't got up with the baby and she was exhausted. On further discussion it transpires he has NEVER EVER got up with him and he is one. It's like some men see it as not their job, it's so sexist.

I'd be long gone, and I told her that (and actually I did ditch my first H for being shit at childcare amongst other stuff)

Her reply ? But he's such a great dad. No no if he is not doing his share then he IS NOT A GREAT DAD. why don't people get this

I agree with PP’s men should be held accountable for their behaviour and I do hold them accountable. Maybe my experiences growing up has lowered my threshold for accepting it but I feel like telling these women, done accept it!

I see some of the women do indeed become martyrs my mum was the complete opposite she took so much pride in doing as her husband asked and pleasing him. I am not trying to open my mind to it and think out loud was she happy? I feel she actually was and she never complained of his behaviour, I feel maybe she went into the marriage expecting the behaviour and there wasn’t surprised or displeased? Who knows, she now feels my new improved dad 2.0 is a bonus.

YANBU in the sense that women also have to take responsibility for the men they choose to partner up with and what treatment they accept - that isn't victim blaming. Amongst my observations reasons include: scared of being lonely or single, genuinely believe their imbalanced set up is normal and all relationships are like that, being a martyr.

But in the wider context women continue to be shit on from a great height by patriarchy and so I believe it will take a couple more generations to improve the division of domestic labour and for it to become more the norm to tell useless men to fuck off.

I think it has took time for some of the conditioning and stereotyping of roles to be knocked down. I know I am at fault and made mistakes in relationships and vice versa. I still feel judged by the standard of cleanliness in home and with children in a way that DP does not. It has taken given and take and compromise.

Why not ask why are there so many men that think behaving like that is acceptable?

Well, yeah. But it really surprises me how many people on MN can’t even have the simplest of conversations with loved ones. People are always asking about how to tackle the behaviour of a partner / friend / mother and then further down the thread it transpires they’ve never even spoken about it.

Men should pull their weight but women shouldn’t feel afraid to have a proper conversation with them about who does what.

I do feel like times have changed a lot though. My friends and I are pretty much all married to men who do a lot around the house, raising kids etc and the relationships feel a lot more equal than those I read about on here. Perhaps a generational thing.

They can think whatever they want, if they don't find anyone to listen, let alone accept it, they'll have to stop.

I do agree with this.

I also accept that if DH does a chore it might be not as good as how I do it but 🤷‍♀️

I agree with conditioning and ingrained thought processes. When we have guests coming over I do feel the urge to make my house nice and presentable but I feel my husband is exactly the same he is also of a similar mindset. For example we recently renovated our house completely top to bottom and we fully expected the next few weekends to be having unexpected guests turn up (normal for our culture) with gifts and to see the house. So we would wake up and one of us would do the standard weekend stuff of getting uniforms washed, ironed and meals done and the other would dust and hoover.

I do think my experience growing up has shaped my mindset I set the tone very early in my relationship that I would not accept a partner who doesn’t pull his weight.

Another can of worms that I’m a little scared to open but I will anyway 😬 (going all out in my first AIBU):

I grew up in an area that wasn’t very diverse and the majority of my neighbours were south Asian and followed a similar culture. I always assumed (I don’t know why honestly) that white British women do not follow the same mindset and maybe my parents set up was due to our culture. Once I began high school and started visiting my friends homes I was surprised to see it also happens in households of all cultures and races.

I know I sound naive and narrow minded but because of my early experiences that’s the belief I had... I think I was around 13 when I realised nope this is a universal issue.

I remember asking my friends mum why she does the cooking (both her and her partner worked full time) and she said that’s my job. 🤷🏻‍♀️

So often you hear oh dad is babysitting or DH can't possibly help with childcare/family life so I can't work or I don't earn enough to work or DH has a hobby.

I think there are deeply ingrained cultural expectations - some people never question these. You see it on here - ‘men don’t see mess’ ‘write him a list’ etc. Some women really believe that taking the bins out and mowing the lawn is a man’s fair share of the housework. It’s true that, in general, women are expected to oversee/manage the household and that there are social consequences when things go wrong.

It’s hard to fight against it because at first it seems like lots of small, unimportant tasks (and we are conditioned to think that women’s/domestic work is unimportant), and it’s often harder to fight expectations than to just get on with it. Then either the woman wakes up one day and realises the husband just makes extra work for her, or she needs something done (eg getting up with a child when she is ill) and he refuses to do it.

By then it’s a question of dismantling a whole life together and it’s really hard.

I think a lot of men tend to do more of the work that’s visible, too. Friends coming round? He’ll cook, or do the barbecue. He won’t change the beds, clean the loo, hoover, make sure the right food is ready to be cooked, etc. He’ll get the praise, having done about 5% of the work. Again these attitudes are socially ingrained.

DH had a stay at home dad which was rare in the 80s so he's very hands on, far more than any of his friends. Some have them have barely changed any nappies, it's ridiculous.

In my case - my XH and I were strictly 50/50. We split the housework (plus he did more in the garden), we both worked FT. We both made decisions about spending etc etc.

I had our DS and went back to work. Everything continued as it was, splitting the work, XH was keen that I didn't do too much as I was caring for our son on my days off.

THEN. I had DD. A very high needs baby. No childcare for two, so I had to give up my job. And with that I gave up all power and ability to have a say in our life (according to my XH). I became a non-person. i was bringing in no money so had no right to any kind of say in our lives.

He'd been so keen on equality up until then, I never saw it coming. And I thought he was right - I was bringing no income into the family so of course I shouldn't have a say in how it was spent. He convinced me that he was right. I had another three children before I worked out that he really thought he had it tough going to work, while I slaved at home with five kids under eight...

Ex now, obviously I saw the lightl

I also think our own thought process plays a part.. I have a friend who’s from the same cultural background (for context) her mum left her dad when she was 5, when she asked her mum why she said he was gambling and drinking all their money away oh and he was lazy. My friend is the same age as me - 32 - she’s single but does want to be in a relationship but she has said she struggles to find a man with a similar mindset as a lot of the men she’s met online start off seeming perfect but then red flags pop up and it’s a big turn off for her.

I have another friend who is married and is actually living my mums life now 30+ years later, her husband does nothing around the house, she resents this but accepts he will never change as “he has always had it easy and his mum did everything for him”.