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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think the NHS should have sent her home

96 replies

YeahWhatevver · 20/04/2020 09:22

BBC News - Coronavirus: Witney nurse, 84, dies from Covid-19
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-52344408

Why is an 84 year old allowed to continue to work in the NHS given all the guidelines on isolation of the vulnerable and social distancing?

I imagine if this was "84 year old dies while continuing to work at an Amazon distribution warehouse" there'd be outrage.

Employers really do have a duty of care to their employees and in this case I think that's not been maintained by the trust.

They should have 100% said thanks for being willing to work but we need you to go home and stay safe now.

OP posts:

vanillandhoney · 20/04/2020 12:06

You can't force someone not to work based on their age alone - it's discrimination.

Of course it's sad that she died but she'll have been given the choice and would have chosen to continue working.

It's not fair to blame this on the NHS.

Clavinova · 20/04/2020 12:12

Her grandson was interviewed on TV yesterday - he was very upbeat and proud of her determination to carry on working. I think he said he was a nurse as well - he could cope with one night shift a week - his grandmother was happy to do three night shifts a week.

Ninkanink · 20/04/2020 12:12

She will have been perfectly able to make that decision for herself. She wanted to work, and who knows, maybe she thoroughly enjoyed that time back in the fray, as it were, and was able to get something valuable from that before her life ended. It’s absolutely not up to you or me or anybody else to arbitrarily decide that an individual of sound mind shouldn’t be allowed to volunteer.

Glowcat · 20/04/2020 12:13

She was aware of the risks and chose to carry on working. I’m grateful for all the people who have chosen to do this. A brave woman.

alloutoffucks · 20/04/2020 12:13

Okay I think it is a strange way of looking at life. According to that my life is meaningless when I go away with friends and without my kids because I have no real purpose. But when I get home again somehow my life has meaning again.
Carry on, but I do think it is a very strange way to look at life. And a very utilitarian way, as if our only meaning is to serve others.

alloutoffucks · 20/04/2020 12:17

@vanillandhoney It is not discrimination. You can do a risk assessment and stop someone working if they are at more risk because of their age or medical conditions. This is not discrimination.
I wish people understood equality law, because most people don't seem to.

WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo · 20/04/2020 12:21

If sounds like she died living her life as she wanted to live it and doing what she loved.

What an amazing woman.

cakeandchampagne · 20/04/2020 12:24

She understood the risks, and wanted to continue to do the work she was trained to do. If she could make that decision all over again, I bet she would choose the same.

TitianaTitsling · 20/04/2020 12:25

There was a case last year in which the NHS had to make a big payout for forcing someone out when they were 86: The NHS were torn to shreds about this as well with cries of ageism, discrimination, if she wants to work she MUST be allowed to etc.

Original poster

YeahWhatevver · 20/04/2020 12:25

Wonder how her contribution to the NHS since the COVID19 thing kicked off compares to the cost to the NHS (not financial but in terms of effort) of her falling ill and dying in hospital.

Isn't so much of the stay at home strategy about relieving the pressure on the NHS rather than protecting individuals?

I just think that all the celebration about her bravery and sacrifice really overlooks the avoidable cost to her and the NHS.

OP posts:

TitianaTitsling · 20/04/2020 12:27

Sorry didn't credit @Ellmau with that!

onanothertrain · 20/04/2020 12:34

alloutoffucks and that same risk assessment can result in them staying at work

Mlou32 · 20/04/2020 12:35

@curiousaboutsamphire I'm a pregnant NHS nurse. Since I'm under 28 weeks, I wasn't given the option to stay at home. Yes of course, I could say no, I'm not coming to work but because I'm under 28 weeks, I'm not deemed high risk and therefore would need to take unpaid leave. I wouldn't be entitled to any financial assistance. Therefore I do feel forced into coming to work.

BlueJava · 20/04/2020 12:36

Perhaps they should have sent her home... or perhaps they were worried about seeming discriminatory. Personally, I think the lady herself should have realised, especially given her profession. Unfortunately it's seem like she wanted to be a martyr.

FoolsLemonTree · 20/04/2020 12:37

alloutoffucks

In answer to your question, no I am not religious, and I don't think a woman's worth is measured by having children. I didn't actually say this either - I said MY life feels meaningless without a chance to have children. I have been through so much and missed out on so much in my life, I had held on to this as one thing - ordinary to so many - that I might not have lost yet. It is especially difficult at this time when people are thinking about what really matters in life and battening down the hatches with their little families, or at least partners. A stark reminder that the precious family so many are holding dear right now doesn't exist for me, and I am separated from those I want so desperately to hold close now.

I do think it is a very strange way to look at life. And a very utilitarian way, as if our only meaning is to serve others.

Humans find meaning in their connections with others. To be totally alone is an extremely unnatural and distressing state for humans. Others who have no desire for children will be suffering from being separated from friends and other family. It's not about serving others, but having meaning, having love.

That said, Im only really continuing to exist right now because of what others need from me. A dear friend will fall over the edge if I die, worse if I kill myself (has been on my mind). I'm also shopping for a vulnerable person so have to think about their practical needs.

P1nkHeartLovesCake · 20/04/2020 12:39

Thing is IF she wanted to continue. What could they do, say “your too old fuck of home” and wouldn’t the papers of loved that age discrimination at its finest

As an adult it was her choice to make, she had the info on the virus. Maybe she trained as a nurse, loved and it and wanted to continue doing her job

Obviously if she was forced to work it’s something very different but not sure that’s what happened here

QuestionableMouse · 20/04/2020 12:39

I heard on the news that she'd come out of retirement to help.

I also think they should have found some way to stop her. I personally wouldn't want an 84 year old nursing me- it's bloody hard work and I'd feel extremely guilty for putting that burden on her.

Mlou32 · 20/04/2020 12:40

@RogueSymphonies why do you assume people are talking "absolute rubbish" just because your experience isn't the same as theirs? I work for the NHS and was advised that because I'm under 28 weeks pregnant, that I wasn't high risk and if I was refusing to work during a certain period then I would have to take unpaid leave. This is very different to vulnerable people who have been given a choice of staying at work or taking leave whilst getting paid. Many people can't afford to do take unpaid leave and therefore are forced, by financial reasons, to come into work.

loobyloo1234 · 20/04/2020 12:43

YABU

She obviously wanted to keep working. Her family in the article all said how proud of her they were. If there were any issues around whether she should have been sent home, they would have said so

Just because people are past retirement age, doesn't mean they have to retire OP. She would have been well aware of the risks

User2764689 · 20/04/2020 12:45

Maybe they respected the fact that despite being elderly, she still had capacity to make decisions even if those decisions put her at risk.

jasjas1973 · 20/04/2020 12:51

She understood the risks, and wanted to continue to do the work she was trained to do. If she could make that decision all over again, I bet she would choose the same

Yes i bet, as she died suffocating in her own fluids!

What a fuck up when we rely on OAPs to staff our health service, who then die, she isn't the first returnee to die, utter disgrace.

KitKat1985 · 20/04/2020 12:55

I agree OP. In my ward all staff who are classed as vulnerable have been asked to do other duties like admin etc, rather than frontline work (and vice versa some admin staff have been asked to do some HCA work). I appreciate there is some degree of choice here on her part, but surely deliberately putting staff on the front line who are likely to get seriously ill is just going to compound the NHS's problem and worsen the 'curve'. Obviously any of us can get sick, but at least you would try to only put staff on the front line who are less likely to get seriously ill and need hospital care.

cottonwoolbrain · 20/04/2020 12:59

I agree.

I have an 84 year old relation who was a consultant anaesthetist for years. She only stopped in her mid 7ps as she kept eunning training courses after retirement She can probably intubate blindfold.. we've had to use some rather persuasive language to persuade her that returning to the NHS with the intention of working on a covid ward is not sensible.

I fear she is still considering it though. I would not put it past her to turn up at a hospital tomorrow complete with white coat and stethoscope.. she keeps say8 g she would like to die doing something useful!!

Zombiemum1946 · 20/04/2020 13:00

Staffing with oaps is becoming the norm. We're supposed to work on till 68 like everyone. There's rumour of it increasing to 70. Same with all public sector workers. It worries me as to how fit I will be to fulfil my post, and if I will I pose a risk to patients. Scary.

ArgumentativeAardvaark · 20/04/2020 13:10

At 84 and as a medical practitioner she would have known that she was (a) more vulnerable to getting Covid if she kept working and (b) more likely to suffer severely if she got it. While I applaud her dedication in some ways, she must have had some limitations on what she could do at 84 (eg physical lifting) so did the benefit that she brought to the NHS by continuing to work really outweigh the pressure that she put on the NHS by taking up a bed and needing care, and possibly a ventilator?

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