To think single-use PPE is terrible for the environment

[Lycidas]

Apparently 55,000 items of PPE will only last eight hours in the UK...with this situation due to continue for many months at least. Is there really no alternative that’s not as wasteful and environmentally damaging?

And loads of people dying is ok ffs!

Hospital and laboratory waste is insane.
I work in a lab and everything is now plastic, things that were made of metal and glass in the past. Partly due to wanting to avoid injury from broken glass and partly due to the fact that autoclave are so expensive to run and plastic is so cheap.

Hugely offset by the stop of industrial across the globe.

Hi
Don’t think this needs to be lives vs environment- if there is no choice fair enough- but if there was (or necessity could be the mother of invention in this case) then it could be win win - I didn’t read op as suggesting that it was a good thing to deny Ppe where needed. We just might need some great boffin types looking into it.

The last thing I think about when I'm donning a gown, gloves, a hat , respirator mask and visor as someone working on the frontline, is the environmental impact of the disposable items ! I'd rather be at home staying away from it but it's my job and I hope it's keeping me safe . I worry considerably more about contracting this virus and becoming so unwell as to never see my husband, parents, children and grandchildren in all honesty. You're being very unreasonable!

And don’t get me started on the suppliers.
Sending a single vial about an inch in size in a box in a box in a box with tonnes of bubble wrap and gel packs.

I think you are getting an unfair roasting... Yes we used to use a lot more reusable items in a whole range of industries that use PPE including health care.
Historically items were used that could be thoroughly cleaned and reused by the same person quite effectively and safely. But we have generally moved to more disposable options as quicker and easier in a whole range of PPE from suits, gloves to RPE. In some cases it's necessary, other cases less so.
I think there is something to be said for a review in the long term.

For example positive pressure RPE behind a face visor doesn't rely on a good face fit for protection, is cooler, less breathing issues for person wearing and obviously has the visor as protection. They can be cleaned effectively, filters replaced when needed and reused again and again by same person...safer for user.. More expensive in first place obviously than a £5 FFP3 disposable but something worth looking at in future...

I guess there's a couple of alternatives.

Even more NHS workers die as a result of having inadequate PPE.

Alternatively,

NHS workers reluctantly, but extremely understandably, prioritise their own health and safety and remove themselves from their roles, leaving many more to die a terrible death untreated.

Personally, I don't like either of those alternatives.

@happytoday73

Thank you for the insight. Honestly, I just want somebody to at least entertain a discussion. The environmental angle isn’t even the most pressing.

Right now they’re saying on TV that 400,000 pieces of PPE have arrived but will only last two days - what do we do...

I agree OP, single use plastic is a terrible problem but hopefully a lot of it will get incinerated to generate electricity.

But air pollution is a forgotten environmental problem because it's easy for people to virtue signal with their reusable water bottle but they won't give up their polluting SUV or turn the engine off when they're waiting for their little darlings to come out of school for the half mile journey home.

So the fact that air pollution has been massively reduced by the virus is something to be celebrated. Hopefully companies will have realised that video conferencing works and a lot of unnecessary flying will stop. This may lead to improvements for the planet.

Op surely you can see that even if PPE can be made from reusable materials, which is a challenge, the moving and cleaning of it puts a whole lot more people at risk. Sealing in a bag and disposing through the hazardous waste route that already exists is a whole lot safer.

Are visors and goggles sterilizable?

We have a shortage at my trust so they're being washed in bleach and reused.
The trust is also collecting our used FFP3 masks to trial UV sterilisation, but we haven't had any returned as yet.
We used to have our own clogs (theatre nurse here) but now they're all communal and soaked in bleach every time we step out of a covid area. Our scrubs and socks are also communal and these are washed at a very high temperature.
The gowns are reinforced, water resistant paper. I can't figure out how they could be safely decontaminated for reuse. The theatres are still running emergency lists - we're still having C-Sections, broken hips, appendicitis etc and those gowns get very heavily soiled with blood during the course of operations. In ITU while I was on shift I managed to get faeces on my sleeve about 10 minutes in.
Any reusable gown would need to be able to withstand that kind of spillage without being too hot to bear for hours at a time

loads of people dying is ok ffs

stupid comment. Loads of people die every year of air pollution. Stop swearing and turn your brain cells on.

At current time we will have to use single use PPE but there are too many idiots who don't know how to use it or using it pointlessly (gloves for general public just wash your hands)

Would be nice if people can dispose of it properly rather than just throwing them on floor.

Not really the time to be concerned about this is it. The virus is not good for the planet lets be more concerned about that.

The virus has been very good for the planet, the virus is bad for human race.

Are you actually serious because if you are you need to give your head a wobble .You rank with the people who are still going out because they are bored ffs .I do community care.We have single use ppe for every call .Some of the people i go to are in their 90's if they caught this virus that would be it .Plus why should NHS workers put themselves at even greater risk .So nope environment last my concerns selfishly so .Oh and you are YABVVU .

Oh for goodness sake. Surely the main emphasis should be on the fact that peoples wives/husbands/partners/mothers/fathers/children friends are currently this second putting their lives at risk in serving others because they don't have PPE. These people are dying. I am all for environmental causes, and am glad of the positive effect of reduced vehicle use etc currently. But with PPE I think that detracts from the fact that people don't have any at all, and are dying.

Obviously at this time we need to use PPE and it's got to be done, but I do think we need to think about the environmental impact and have some scientists looking into how to best dispose of it in the least damaging way. Hopefully we could at least avoid having it all wash up in the ocean. There might be some way to burn it with very high tech filters or something like that.

It's very simple. The materials used in order to prevent molecules as tiny as viruses passing through, are not safely washable.

There is simply no alternative.

This.

Of course, overpopulation is the biggest cause of pollution. are you suggesting we should let covid 19 do it's worst?

My mother two months ago: 'We must recycle our yoghurt pot lids or the world will end!'

My mother yesterday: 'I've burned the cardboard recycling in the garden, shall I make a start on the plastic or do you think the neighbours will complain?'

They have always used disposable stuff in hospital settings. You don’t think that when you have a smear test that the gloves have been re-used do you? Or that a surgeon reuses his mask? Boil washing reusable ones would probably have the same environmental impact with all the detergent that would be needed, etc. They would turn also need PPE for the people washing the reusable PPE.

FGS. Saving lives is higher up on the agenda right now. Let’s have an eco-warrior moan on the other side of this, yes?

The virus is not good for the planet lets be more concerned about that.

Why do people say this? The virus is great for the planet, it's the people living on it that are at threat from it.

I don't know why others are giving the OP such a hard time, it's a reasonable question to explore, and OP isn't suggesting anything that would compromise anyone.

PPE for the NHS (I'm talking about the arm length waterproof used in ICU) is apparently made in China, but due to their shutting down of factories, and the pandemic spreading worldwide, that is why there is such a shortage. It's not unreasonable to think about how to safely reuse what we have, so that care can continue to be given to those that need it without putting staff at risk. There are already staff in private hospitals not willing to risk working without adequate PPE, no-one wants to see that extend in to the NHS.

If goggles etc can be reused after being adequately cleaned, would it not be a good idea to explore how PPE could also be reused? Especially if we are just experiencing a first wave and there are more waves to come.

Right now they’re saying on TV that 400,000 pieces of PPE have arrived but will only last two days - what do we do...,
That is not what was said. They said 84 tons of PPE is due to arrive tomorrow from Turkey including 400,000 gowns.

Lots of people piling on OP but in an ideal world where ppe were sterilisable, maybe we wouldn't run out so fast.

The thin plastic aprons they are currently using in my local a and e could be made from cornstarch for example, or paper for non corona patients.

I was in a and e last week with a non corona problem and to come into my cubicle to give me a tablet for 20 seconds the nurse had to put on a fresh apron. A paper one could have done the trick. But yes, we have to work with what we can source, I know.