To wonder how far cultural differences affect rates of transmission as well as adherence to lockdown?

[Ethelfleda]

Let me preface this by saying that I am in no way ‘blaming’ any one country, or how they behave for how rates of transmission may have panned out. This is an emotive subject, but I am interested in a more scientific discussion...

So my question - if, culturally, some people are more tactile than others - do you think this would directly impact rates of infection? I do not think that Brits are particularly ‘touchy feely’ people, I wonder if this will have any impact whatsoever on transmission rates?
Likewise, our culture seems to be one of finger pointing and I wonder if far more people will adhere to the lock down to ‘avoid upsetting the neighbours’ more than they would do it because the government have asked?? And whether this sometimes isn’t the case in other countries?

Anyway - I am a complete layman so I genuinely want to keep an open mind and hear what others have to say in the hope of advancing my knowledge on the subject... and I know all you lovely mumsnetters are the best peer review I can find for my own opinions

Anyone?

I would think so

I think boris and mike pence carried on shaking hands

Look at asia where nobody really touches each other and rates seem much lower

I think social structures like whether we live in family groups will also be a factor.

Air quality and overcrowding are also factors hence poorer boroughs òf londinbare worse effected, imo, I am not a scientist.

I would imagine a large part of this would be either a nation that is more obedient at following the rules or / and much stricter policing of the rules leading to less spread

Mask usage is also common in some places. Due to air quality and or having a cold

If your aim is to show that Brits are particularly safe from spread of infection due to cultural habits, it's going to be hard to explain how the death figures are so much higher here than in e.g. Greece (and as far as the curves go, look likely to be among the highest of any country during this pandemic). I made my first visit to a supermarket since the pandemic yesterday and was fascinated to see how many people casually sauntered down the aisles, picking up item after item, looking at them and then putting them back. This despite the heroic efforts of the security guard at the door only to let a few in at a time. This is a fairly small suburban community where lots of people know each other. Yet it didn't seem to occur that being able to make up your mind exactly which flavour frozen dessert you fancy might be just a little bit less important than not spreading infection.

I heard a chap on LBC saying that certain communities/ cultures tend to live in larger family groups/ see their elders more regularly than other cultures. He said there was a higher rate of infection within these communities.

I think here in certain communities multi generational living is almost unheard off and in others it is common, it was mentioned as a factor in Italy but in Scandinavia it is very rare
also living rurally is much less common in some cultural ethnic groups than others, hot spots are generally densely populated areas
in some Asian communities it is low contact betweeen unrelated opposites sexes but outside a mosque for example you would often see men greet each other physically etc

In theory yes. It’s certainly a plausible story with relation to Italy and how quickly it spread there.

But UK death figures look likely to be as bad as any and may even outpace Italy, so I’m not sure it properly stacks up.

To my mind, it's not just about general attitudes of obeying the rules but also about which rules have been given- some countries have been far quicker off the mark and far stricter than UK.

Even after lockdown, the signals from government are confusing and contradictory, and there are clearly strong forces who would like to see lockdown abolished (presumably because they are losing money).

Also, about the modelling of adherence to rules by those in power. This has generally been very poor in UK: people standing around coughing in parliament after they knew they had been in touch with infected people, the Health Secretary wiping his nose with his hands and failing to observe social distance when opening an actual hospital, the PM himself boasting about shaking hands with patients at a corona-infected hospital (even though there is some evidence he was lying there) and going on shaking hands long after the rest of us had been told to observe social distancing, the heir to the throne and the father of the PM travelling long distances after warnings had been issued and no criticism of their actions...

I do not think that Brits are particularly ‘touchy feely’ people, I wonder if this will have any impact whatsoever on transmission rates?

Unfortunately not.

The 980 deaths in hospital announced in the UK yesterday exceeded the very worst days in Italy and Spain. Huge numbers of elderly died at home and in care homes and are not included in the figure of 980. The numbers are continuing to climb.

I don't believe that any facet of British culture is responsible for such an alarming rate of deaths. Our government was just too slow to respond to the impending crisis and didn't cancel large gatherings, sporting events, close schools, etc.

Population density certainly must be a factor. Interesting to see that London and Birmingham seem to be the worst hit areas in the UK.

Good point hannah

The 980 deaths in hospital announced in the UK yesterday exceeded the very worst days in Italy and Spain

This is true, and a harrowing number of course... but we can’t necessarily take a number on one day as part of a trend... it may be an outlier. And we won’t know for a few days yet whether it is part of the curve or not. Hopefully, not obviously!

In Japan people don't shake hands but now, and in general there is more respect for other people's private space, unless you're traveling in rush hour on the train. Also, in general the hygiene standard. This may have contributed to a lower infection rates.

This is true, and a harrowing number of course... but we can’t necessarily take a number on one day as part of a trend... it may be an outlier. And we won’t know for a few days yet whether it is part of the curve or not. Hopefully, not obviously!

But 980 clearly wasn't an outlier.

938 were announced on Wednesday and 917 hospital deaths have just been announced today.

Let’s not forget as well, that if it takes roughly three weeks for people to catch, show symptoms, be admitted to hospital and then either survive or not... we won’t know until next week really whether or not lockdown is working and/or being adhered to.

Hannah yes, of course. You are right!

Around here tensions are rising as Roma and Romanian households are conspicuously not adhering to the rules. The men tend to gather in large groups in the street and the families are generally in and out of each other’s houses.

I wondered this too. I've lived in Spain and its rare to live in a house. I wondered if the spread there (and Italy) was in part down to communal areas, lifts and doors. The numbers now would dispute this theory of mine.
I know this has been posted about umpteen times but social distancing is still not being taken seriously enough. Yes I am and the majority of people reading this undoubtedly are but the block of flats by my house are socializing together in the sunshine, sharing spliffs and behaving as if its a holiday. I despair.

As someone upthread mentioned, advice from leaders/governments has varied greatly.

UK: 8,958 deaths to date.

Boris Johnson told reporters at a press conference in early March : “I am shaking hands. I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were coronavirus patients and I was shaking hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands.

“People must make up their own minds but I think the scientific evidence is … our judgment is that washing your hands is the crucial thing.”

Philippines: 247 deaths to date.

Rodrigo Duterte, president of the Philippines, says people who violate coronavirus lockdown rules could be shot dead, saying "I will bury you".

Quite a difference in approaches, that's for sure!

Each country seems to have its own reasons, I can see in Spain they are more tactile but equally in the uk and US we are more obese/overweight. Then you have poverty, the density of the population and many more factors.

Daftodil very interesting!!

There are obviously differences within countries too. There's been lots in the media recently about how BAME people are disproportionately affected by the virus in the UK and the USA (not sure about any other countries...?)

From a bbc article: Only 14% of people in England and Wales are from ethnic minority backgrounds, according to the 2011 census, however, the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre found that 34% of more than 3,000 critically ill coronavirus patients identified as black, Asian or minority ethnic.

"Cultural factors such as multi-generational households and reliance on places of worship and community centres could be contributing to the data."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52255863