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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Younger people should be rewarded for lockdown via affordable housing

783 replies

Ordree · 09/04/2020 17:51

As others have noted, young people (not just those in frontline roles) are making enormous sacrifices to protect others, mostly but not exclusively from much older age groups. They will be bequeathed a damaged planet, a ruined economy and they will have done further damage to their mental health by staying indoors for months on end. They are the ones paying older people's pensions when they won't have anything like the same financial security to look forward to themselves. Yes I know older people paid their elders pensions during their working lives, bit never has there been such an imbalance. As the economy is likely to be ruined short to medium term anyway, would it not be reasonable to start the biggest givernment-funded housebuilding programme ever, allow younger people who have just bought to write off negative equity losses against tax, and essentially redress some of the appalling imbalance between generations and classes?

OP posts:
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Parker231 · 12/04/2020 09:11

Some young people work harder than others. The same applies to every generation.

What do you think is different about the current generation? They have had better education, housing, technology and health care than previous generations.

00100001 · 12/04/2020 09:14

@ZombieFan
If my universal basic income is £40k as someone unemployed. Why would I go to work for £40k?
Why would I go to uni, train for years to become a vet for example??

00100001 · 12/04/2020 09:16

@ZombieFan because now a vet would get significantly more than £40k, so would an architect or any other skilled/highly trained job.

And that just means people earn more money, so costs go up, prices increase and then oh £40k? Now, that's the breadline...

bellinisurge · 12/04/2020 09:37

The older generation who are most at risk are, in the majority, baby boomers not WWII veterans. Aside from the very old, like the Queen's or Prince Phillip's age, both of whom served in the war, most of the over 70s were either children in the war - protected from it as much as possible by their parents- or born after the war.

Alsohuman · 12/04/2020 09:53

*If they’d been born 50 years earlier they’d have left school at 14 and been sent to war.

50 years ago was 1970! The school leaving age was already 16 in 1972. The leaving age was already 15 in 1945. Britain hasn't fought a "total war" since WWII which ended in 1945. There are some quite strange ideas about the past on this thread*

Try what’s actually written, not what you think is written. It references boomers and says earlier not ago. If boomers had been born 50 years earlier, they’d have been born in the early years of the 20th century.

Oliversmumsarmy · 12/04/2020 09:56

Zombie How many people do you think would stay in a country for the love of that country if they could have a better lifestyle elsewhere

If you are earning £40000 per year and a company/hospital/institution (or even if you moved abroad yourself to start a business) offered you £200,000 per year and a much better lifestyle do you honestly think people wouldn’t go.

Do you think people would keep their families in the UK so they could just manage rather than taking them to a country where they could buy the best education for their children and a fantastic lifestyle for them all.

You only have to look at the programme about people moving to Australia.

Whilst they will miss their friends and family how many who find out that they can live like they normally do or even have a better way of life and have a chunk of money left over each month end up staying in the UK for the love of their country?

If you think people will stay for the love of their country what do you think will happen to the people who don’t class the UK as their country.

I think there might be a few communists who would be in their element and a few people who wouldn’t ever earn anything other than minimum wage jobs and those because of family who can’t move but the rest will be running for the nearest airport.

As for going to university to learn to love your country. We are not North Korea.

If you had read the thread I stated that it was university that is the problem for children.
The time and money they waste has to be paid back and they end up years behind their peers who left school at 16 and either started work or went to college for a year to learn a skill/trade.

There isn’t any critical thinking going on in either parents or children in deciding whether university is for the way to go.

Like my Dd who at 19 bought her first place for cash, we know others who decided against the uni route and who have bought their first home.
We know some who are living together already and planning their lives whilst both are in ft jobs and we know a few who have already got children.

Compare that with the university leavers who seem to struggle outside of uni because they find they have to start at the bottom and work their way up. Just like the 16 year old school leaver but they are 21/22 and can’t accept that buying your forever home as a ftb (unless they have a trust fund or huge inheritance) isn’t going to happen

ChrissieKeller61 · 12/04/2020 09:57

I actually think people would be happier and live better lived if they didn’t work for money. Are people honestly saying without financial reward they wouldn’t want to heal sick animals ? I’d love to do it just don’t have the brains but if I could I would, bring paid £70,000 a year isn’t the motivation

Oliversmumsarmy · 12/04/2020 10:01

We have to think to think about people who dont earn money (as a priority

There are 4 non working adults in our household atm

Does that mean in your world we would get paid £160,000 per year to not work.?

Alsohuman · 12/04/2020 10:04

Ffs, what’s wrong with you all? Are you always this slow? She was joking!

bridgetreilly · 12/04/2020 10:24

I actually think people would be happier and live better lived if they didn’t work for money

Yes, it was really noticeable in communist USSR that people were happier and lived better.

stellabluesky · 12/04/2020 10:25

'The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there'.

Different generations grew up with different issues, problems, opportunities, demographics, technology, context & attitudes and I think this current anti boomer/make them pay attitude is unhelpful and those who advocate it often have a very selective view of the past.

My father and FIL are both still alive in their early 90s and both fought in the last years of WW2 and were stuck in Burma and Berlin respectively for a while afterwards. The reason I was born in this country is that my father, a proud Irishman, fighting against all Hitler stood for, was reviled by others in his village for (as they saw it) fighting for the English. Had to leave, got a job in Swindon cleaning trains and slept in them as couldn't find affordable housing as it was still the days of landlords in the poorer areas saying 'no blacks, no Irish, no dogs'. He worked tirelessly to 'better himself' as he called it. Evening classes, extra jobs, scrimping, saving, making do. My aunt always lamented the fact she was 9 when sweets were rationed and 19 when they came off rationing. She and my mum (now both dead) were both evacuees. We were never financially stable when I was a child despite the best efforts of my parents. My mum always worked but the equal pay act didn't come into force until 1970 and sex discrimination act until 1975. She was very active in fighting for both. I'm mid 50s, still work, and so experienced the turbulence of the 1970s. In some ways, it's a similar situation to now, life was reasonably good in the early 1970s, low inflation, good rates of employment, easy to find a job then we had the oil crisis. I think there are some similarities to now in the sense that no one thought the Yom Kippur war, something that seemed far away and nothing much to do with the UK would cause the oil crisis and result in the 3 day week, power cuts, huge levels of inflation & unemployment etc. We then had significant recessions in the early 1980s, 1990s, 2008 and I was made redundant in both, got reemployed after a while but at lower salaries.

Every generation has it tough in many respects although (and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this) in many ways a lot of people nowadays take what was regarded luxuries as essentials and don't think about the opportunity cost of these. For example my nephew has the latest phone, much better car than me, lots of holidays, loves his night life, that's all fine but then stop moaning you can't afford a flat particularly as he lives in a part of the UK where houses are affordable. But this brings me back to to the point that each generation sees the world differently. So yes, there will be austerity after all this, but it needs to be fairly distributed, we all will need to think about lifestyle choices, work together to protect the vulnerable (young & old) and not one generation pitched against the other.

ChrissieKeller61 · 12/04/2020 10:27

I can only speak from experience but my bills are all covered without me having to go to work and I’m happy and still motivated. If I want a holiday or clothes I have to work, but nobody starved if I don’t

drcb83 · 12/04/2020 10:30

I am a highly skilled professional, and also volunteer at my local Foodbank one full day a week - so not a bad person overall.
I earn significantly more than £40k - and can tell you that if you taxed me more than 60%, I would move to a country that doesn't. Simple as that.

Oliversmumsarmy · 12/04/2020 10:37

drcb83 you mean you wouldn’t stay for the love of your country😃

ChrissieKeller61 · 12/04/2020 10:43

And what if they all had the same policy @drcb83 ?
Also that £40,000 bought a home, covered bills etc and the other 40% covered your treats so you had a good life. I think that would work (obviously in theory, some pigs more equal than others etc)

Insideimsprinting · 12/04/2020 10:43

Yabvu yes these are hard times, yes the aftermath will also be hard. But life is hard sometimes deal with it with grace and dignity and dont do it expecting something back that's just crass.
When all of this passes and your life gets back to normal you will feel quietly proud that you came through a tough time with the realisation that your made of sturdy stuff and you can get through it because you can and not because your going to be rewarddd for it.

I find it sad that people think like you op. You need the crap stuff like this to make you appreciate the good stuff, what you describe sounds entitled and precious. It certainly doesn't sound like we're all in this together sounds like you cone with strings attached.

drcb83 · 12/04/2020 10:47

Nope! I would not stay for the love of country :-D

drcb83 · 12/04/2020 10:54

Capitalism will always reign somewhere. And you would have to devalue my current house to get it to 40k, a house that I worked for years to buy. The country does that- screw them - I will take my expertise somewhere else.

WaterOffADucksCrack · 12/04/2020 11:02

What do you think is different about the current generation? They have had better education, housing, technology and health care than previous generations. Can I just say that has and will continue to be true for every new generation because society and technology evolves.

Xenia · 12/04/2020 11:06

I really think it helps to omuch to do comparisons between the generations as in all generations some are very poor (most of my ancestors) and a few are rich and over 80 years most people have it hard and then have easier periods.

However I don't agree that those who were teenagers in WWII in the UK were shielded from it. It was dreadful for them. Plenty were sent to live with strangers of years. My parents had bombs falling on them in the UK (for some reason the village my mother lived in near Sunderland had loads of decoys in fields with glass pretending to be Newcastle or Sunderland so the Germans would drop the bombs there where there were fewer people). Many grew up without a father as he served in the navy.

Capitalism is the best system the world has produced and it works very well. Socialism has always failed.

however as soon as we start comparing Jimmy who is a student in 2020 with James who was a student in 1975 it gets difficult as things are so different across the generations. Eg in 1917 my granny's family was 10 children, a dead father and a widowed mother in a 3 room place (yes 3 rooms for 11) and of course rented as most people rented then.

drcb83 · 12/04/2020 11:10

@Xenia Totally agree

Xenia · 12/04/2020 11:16

..my first line should have been really don't think it helps....

However I have no problems anyone discussing anything. I have given just about everything firs to an ex husband who got over 60% of our assets and no obligation to support nor even see the children - my life savings etc etc... Then I have cashed my pension at 55 to give HMRC a massive slug of tax - hundreds of thousands - I hope it is spending it wisely now on covid 19 patients rather than part of the £300m foreign aid to Pakistan etc. and balance to my older children for housing, then my next lot of savings to the older children for housing and to enable all 5 to graduate without any student loans (I have worked full time since 1983 without a break) and I pay an awful lot of tax and some of that will go both to older and younger generations through the stae for universal credit, student loans, university costs, policing etc.

I do own one house only now after 30 years without a mortgage. I own a car. i don't really have anything else. I am never quite sure if I am too young to be a boomer - born 1960s - I am on the cusp. I have done things I m not sure women today would do - work until in Labour, back full time when baby 2 weeks (yes weeks not months) old. All of us just do the best for our families given the times presented to us.

There are many more flats to rent than when the Rent Acts in practice closed the whole market down so that has been a vast improvement, but I never got a free council house like my doctor uncle did in the 1940s when the theory was you all paid in AND you also all got back. Instead we moved to those who work pay in and if you pay a lot in you will not really get much at back all.

KenDodd · 12/04/2020 11:41

Capitalism is the best system the world
I read a quote from someone once, can't remember who. -

Capitalism is like a fire, if well tended and controlled, it provides heat and light for everyone.
If left to burn unrestrained, it destroys everything in its path.

Personally I think tax is a bit of a red herring (tax avoidance isn't though). The issue for me is low pay and a fair distribution of companies profits. The people at the top have just been far to greedy sucking up all the profits while paying poverty wages. And I'm sure someone is going to come back and say the workers should be grateful, they wouldn't have a job without the CEO. Well, right back at you, the CEO didn't make all the money themselves, the staff all made it and the CEO wouldn't have anything without the staff.

KenDodd · 12/04/2020 11:46

I hope it is spending it wisely now on covid 19 patients rather than part of the £300m foreign aid to Pakistan etc

CV is a global problem, it has to be tackled globally, I have no problem with my taxes helping the developing world fight CV.

ChrissieKeller61 · 12/04/2020 11:52

Turkey just sent us 250,000 masks via their airforce. Thank goodness we previously supported them as it appears they are in a better position than us PPE wise