In a spat with a hotel in Sicily...advice about international bank transfer please

[Thelowquietsea]

So, way back in January we cancelled accommodation in Sicily for this May as we had a conflict in half term. It's a high end place. The terms were a refundable deposit. They kept saying they'd refund it. Week after week we emailed. Nothing.

To cut a long story short, then they went into lockdown and have since blamed that on not being able to refund money. I am entirely sympathetic to the financial woes that COVID brings, but this situation preceded that so their attitude has really riled me. It's also several hundred pounds.

After ignoring yet another email (they eventually promised refund no later than early April), I posted a negative review on FB. Surprise surprise, they responded within the hour. But with a very dramatic, 'we are broken by Covid, these are awful people asking for money now.' Which is bullshit, and personally upsetting, as I've kept paying all my suppliers e,g. gym, dog walker etc during the lockdown, as I want them to exist when this is over!

But then I got an email asking me for a whole load of personal data (address, passport number etc) before they can send international bank transfer.

This concerns me. I don't like giving out this personal data. They've never asked for it before. Why does he need this now? (they have our SWIFT/BAN details etc).

He was a solicitor before owning the place. Any thoughts?

It’s Italy. Bureaucracy and anti money laundering laws are really strict (many things introduced to target mafia payments). They probably need to be able to demonstrate ID of recipient. Doesn’t surprise me that they’d ask for so much.

awaits punch up between malvinaa and op

Yeah I've been asked for similar before but not sure why. Always abroad. I guess it's like I never understand why they need similar details upon checking in.

I guess it's a good thing they are engaging somewhat, even if it's slow.
I also think they are probably busy dealing with all kinds of cancellations since the pandemic , as well as trying to work out how to keep the business afloat. Also they have a total lockdown so I'm not sure how efficiently they are able to work.
I knows it's poor form to be so slow on responding and only react when you post a negative review. I would guess they are fraught with worry about how to keep their business and that's why they jumped on your negative review.

I understand it's frustrating though.

Can you reply to them asking why they need all this info and request them to refund to the details they already have for you?

Hope you get it sorted

If you've paid by credit card, just contact the card company and they should take care of it. If they don't time for a new credit card.

Stop bullying them and writing stuff on SM, they really do have other concerns at the moment. However, do contact your credit card supplier - dispute the payment and contact your travel insurance. Which hotel is it out of interest ? RF Verdura or Belmond ?

I'd like to say that I have sent over the course of 1o weeks, very polite emails to them. They have not responded or acted as they said they would. I'm not a bully, but I am very frustrated. As I keep stressing, this has not been their response since January. Not since Covid.

As for @malvinaaa81's response, there will be no punch up from my end. It wouldn't be Mumsnset without a knobhead judgepants post making wild assumptions about someone else based on scant information. So, thank you @malvinaaa81 for fulfilling that role. You sound so angry. I am worried about you? Are you ok? You should keep an eye on those anger levels. Not good for your health.

It's so interesting, though, that I use two examples 'gym and dog walker' and combined with the fact that I'm still waiting for an Italian hotel refund from 12 weeks ago, and haven't just written it off, that I'm suddenly this awful, callous person. It is genuinely really interesting. I could have written that I work two jobs, so more than full time, home school and am doing volunteer work in an urgent area at the moment. That I've lent a lot of money to people I'm close to in need, as I have some savings, and would rather have my money back to continue supporting people. But I guess judgements are made here, regardless.

Why are they trying to do a bank transfer rather than refunding to your credit card? I expect they are needing to do anti money laundering checks because of this, but wouldn't if they were refunding to the same payment method.

Surely they could just block you on fb or remove negative reviews?

what you do or don't do is totally irrelevant here but if you tell us all that you booked a high end hotel and are still paying your gym, dog walkers etc details not actually needed at all, then expect an assumption to be made.......

But as you paid by CC & the hotel is in breach of its TC's (you have a copy?) then its very easy to make a claim to your CC provider under the consumer credit act 1974 section 75, even if the hotel goes bust, the provider is still liable to pay out. Google MoneyExpert.com for the procedure and your rights.

But for me, i wont be going down that route

Since you paid with a credit card, you are almost certainly covered (even with a debit card, you're probably covered). Google section 75. Give your issuing bank a call today.

They don’t need these details if you paid by cc. They should be refunding you through the method you paid. The only reason I can possibly think is if they’ve cut everything to the bone and are no longer paying for credit card facilities. No expert. Perhaps someone could clarify this.

You don’t seem to desperately need the money immediately. Have you context your credit card company? I would do this to get their take before handing details over.

They did not want to pay by credit card back in January, when this started. Once again, their behaviour and response precedes Italy's situation. They insisted the only way to refund was by international transfer.

I would give them the info they need and speed the transfer along!

@jasjas1973 - you're not going down that route as your holiday has been cancelled as a result of COVID.

Ours was cancelled long before. And i had booked because they had a 100% refundable deposit, as I wasn't entirely sure we could def make it.

But we are also "not going down that route" with another place we booked abroad - because it was cancelled as a result of Covid and I'll just go another time, or waive the deposit

They did not want to pay by credit card back in January, when this started. Once again, their behaviour and response precedes Italy's situation. They insisted the only way to refund was by international transfer.

If they've breached the terms of the agreement, you're well within your rights to request a chargeback.

I think all goodwill is drained from this situation so any suggestions that the OP requests a credit rather than a refund are probably beside the point.

I don't think he is planning to steal your identity. I think it is much more likely to do with Italian bureaucracy in which you need a codice fiscale (for us our passport number) to buy a book of stamps pretty much. I don't think you are dealing with the Mafia, just some very desperate people who probably don't have any cash flow at the moment. It's very likely they were waiting for the season to start to refund you, and then the s 2020 season never started. Personally I'd go the credit card company route if you really don't trust him though.

I've decided to give basic details, see if they transfer. If they don't, I'll go through our CC and discuss it with them.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Stay well!

Take it up with your credit card company. They are obligated to be involved and providing your request was within the stated terms and conditions they will provide the refund and follow it up with the company. Don't accept an international transfer, they are not subject to the same checks and the hotel could claim they did it, but didn't etc. Also, there is literally no need. Your agreement is with you card provider, it's why they change fees.

I wouldn't accept a bank transfer either. It seems untidy and a basis for them to reject your request for a chargeback if it comes to it.

If I were you I'd send them a polite note and tell them you've decided to take it up with your credit card provider as it's the original payment method.

I have never had a wire transfer from Italy go right the first time round. Why would you be so reluctant to contact your credit card company?
They will sort this right away.

I don't think he is planning to steal your identity. I think it is much more likely to do with Italian bureaucracy
This. I would just send the info. You need a carta d'identità or passport for everything in Italy, so this doesn't sound unreasonable. If you're worried, send your driving licence instead and see if that's acceptable.

There are at least four posters in Italy on this thread (morning all) and you definitely do not need anything other than bank account details of the payee in order to transfer money.

So, yes, he is probably asking for further ID because he thinks HE is being scammed. He probably finds it odd that you DON'T need an ID card or a codice fiscale to be able to pay someone.

I make bank transfers from Italy to the UK about every ten days. Never had to provide any recipient details other than the IBAN etc. Likewise I receive money from third parties into a non Italian a/c and I only provide the a/c number and IBAN.