The ethics of unnecessary deliveries

[nomdefuckit]

AIBU to wonder about this?

We're doing a 12 week lock down as DH in the shielding group. Nobody gets in or out, including toddler

I would love to order more stuff to keep him entertained, garden stuff, DIY stuff etc

I haven't because I thought it was wrong for a number of reasons

1: infection risk - every delivery has that potential
2: employees of delivery companies should not be pressured to work more than necessary for their own health
3: more drivers going out and about is more opportunities for the virus to spread
4: there is limited capacity in the system for deliveries. It should be left for essentials

Yet I have seen on here and elsewhere (fb mainly) people talking openly about the nice candles, home furnishings, make up etc that they have ordered

Anybody else a bit shocked by this?

The virus can live on packaging. That's not in dispute.

Then put the packaging straight in the bin and wash your hands.

I work for an online company that delivers a (very!) non essential item. I’m happy to work, it means I can still pay rent, support my family, and as it’s a small company, we’re all working at a very safe distance. I’m scared that In the future we won’t get the volume to keep going, and 80% of my income short term, if I’m eligible, won’t help my family later in the year. Also I know what we deliver makes people happy, so I don’t feel guilt about working, as long as people can afford to send luxuries to loved ones.

And that packaging had been handled be several people, been on several surfaces

The driver will have to handle potential 100s of parcels like that per shift

That's not fair on that person - not for the sake of make up or candles. Medication or food maybe

The delivery staff are wearing gloves, are washing their hands, delivery rooms and warehouses are being disinfected. Door stop deliveries are (largely) happening.

Then the driver can wash his or her hands, wear gloves or use sanitiser if they feel the need to do so.

As long as they wash their hands and don't touch their face constantly I'm sure they'll be fine. We have to have a balance here - if the economy tanks and too many businesses go under then millions of people will be out of work.

We're already going to paying back all this government support for years and years to come. The more people who can continue to work, the better.

I’m not sure about this.

I'm not buying from Amazon any more as the way they're treating their staff is appalling - making them work in depots with 200-300 people all sharing the same equipment, no distancing, not enough hand sanitizer etc etc plus how they're profiteering - I saw a packet of crisps on there for £17 last week and a thermometer for £70.

If small businesses are on top of the infection risk I'd imagine supporting them is a positive, isn't it?

We're going to be indoors for 3 months or more at this rate. That's a significant amount of time in a child's life and I want to be able to order educational stuff.

But more generally this is a good chance to reflect on what we actually need vs what we buy for fun. Which is part of the problem. We don't have a chance of tackling climate change, for example, if we don't drastically change our relationship to stuff and our buying habits.

I cannot even get to the allotment to check on the bees.
Why not?
Visiting allotments to look after plants and livestock are specifically allowed activities ....

I have ordered several non necessities
from UK companies
to make my life better long term
and keep the supplier companies in business

I feel absolutely no guilt or shame about doing so

I had a delivery arrive today, and it was fully contactless. I got a phone call informing me he was on his way, and then he knocked and left everything on the doorstep, then went back to his van to watch. We then opened the door to collect and to tell him everything was fine, and he was on his way. Perfectly safe and I don't think he was in any harm from coming to our home. He didn't come anywhere near us at all.

FFS. The people how packed, those who loaded the van, the drivers who picked up from the supplier. The hubs that it passed through- loading and and unloading. Those who unloaded and then loaded at the local delivery place.

The driver who brings it to your door.

Risk for them- risk for you. How long does the virus live on packaging?

But hey you have your stuff and so you are ok.

@ListeningQuietly because I am in the shielding group - as stated up thread.

It makes me roll my eyes when people bang on about putting the warehouse workers and delivery drivers at risk. Often they are not those people themselves. I've seen one or two family members be vitriolic about unnecessary deliveries but not the staff themselves. I spoke to DP mum who is one of those "poor" factory and warehouse workers and she said she is desperate to work, shes reliant on the job, and if it stops when this is all over she will lose her accommodation and her ....well everything. O told her about this and frankly her answer was " it's the liberal idiots who are sat in their nice warm houses and think they are helping me when they really are just taking my income away" but bless her she has a way with words , and knows I'm liberal but I knew what she meant.

I was a bit worried about delivery workers but an ex colleague has one as a partner and asked her , she said the same , well actually what she said was " it would be great if assholes didn't breathe on him left right and centre but has anyone seen the chaos at the job centre to sign on? We need the money, it's not perfect but he would rather be employed , he stays away from people anti bacs the shit out of everything , let me guess it's people who are alright who want to be all virtuous ? Well that's fucking great , I'm guessing they want me to go to food banks to keep going do they?"

So there we go that's all I can say from a very limited two person poll.

I do think , dont be a git and open the door unless you have to, let them get away from your house before you pick up the package, and follow the same rules as bringing in food packaging.

The rest of it, well feels very much like wanting to protect a group of people without asking them their opinion and how it affects them, and treating then like children when they like the rest of us as adults have had to make a decision for themselves.

Is it ideal? No , if the government could pay them all to stay at home and keep the companies solvent at the same time then great but they cant (the furloughs often dont count in some of these situations , they dont apply to my DP mum nor do they apply to my friends husband ).

Just stop fucking shaming people for trying to find a little bit of pleasure (while boosting the eviscerated economy). You are adding to their stress and misery.

The virtue-signalling around us emerging from this a more connected, caring society/ less materialistic/ more ecologically sound, etc., etc., is zero comfort to me. I am a freedom-loving hedonistic individualist. I fucking LOVED my lifestyle before this pandemic and I am mourning its disappearance every day.

But hey you have your stuff and so you are ok.

Well, that's not what I said at all.

You can't just not buy anything for months and expect the economy to survive this. There has to be a balance. My delivery was food, by the way, so kind of an essential as we've only just come out of two weeks isolation.

All this 80% government support and the small business grants are not free. We'll be paying this all back via our taxes for years to come. The more people who can continue to work the better.

Saying "I won't buy anything at all except necessities" is very short-sighted. The governments' latest guess is this lockdown will continue until June. How many thousands of companies will go bust in that time if everyone refuses to buy anything bar the necessities?

bravelittledragon

Not all warehouses are disinfected. Ours isn’t.

My dad is postman.His London branch has been given gloves to use and hand sanitiser provided.

I do think we're heading for a depression anyway- this plus Brexit makes it pretty much guaranteed

@Orangecake123

That's good to hear

I've had a few food deliveries lately and non have had gloves or masks which is worrying

If you are ordering home gym kit to boost your health and your immune system
GOOD
If you are ordering garden seeds, plants and equipment to grow your own food and stay healthy
GOOD
If you are ordering books / puzzles / home games to keep your mental health going
GOOD

Wash your hands regularly
Stay active
Stay sane

This is going to be a long haul.
Lets come out the other end with our sanity intact

I'm just jealous of anyone who can still afford to buy anything, at all, either in the shops or online.

I am shocked people are shocked. Do we really need to live in self-abnegation, and spend the rest of the year kneeling in the corner on sharp stones, whipping out backs and eating a grain of rice once a day? No right to do something nice for ourselves every once in a while?

to pay for this we need an economy that works long term sending cards / parcels to those self isolating is really important as some of the very elderly being shielded have no internet and communication is necessary
it is much better to get stuff delivered than go to shops, if you go to asda you can still pick up magazines stationery with your food shop
some people who don't have 12 pairs of black trousers will need to order new ones if their curreent ones rip children may need shoes the next size up or clothes the next size up ordering online is way better than trying to go to George at ASDA
neither Italy , France or Spain have stopped deliveries in much tighter lockdown than here

I don't think it's black and white either. It's a long time stuck in. People need to keep their spirits up and they need to be able to keep busy. Mental health is as important as physical health. Obviously there is a balance to be had and I think his is it. We all stay at home as much as possible but order things on line that we need. There are still far fewer people going out and about than there was.

It's also important that our economy isn't completely decimated as this affects everyone's lives in the long term. People seem to think that it's money vs lives and it's really not that simple. Money to save lives has to come from somewhere. The government needs money to function, to provide services including our health services, and support our infrastructure, and provide benefits to people who have nothing. If our economy collapses there will be none of this. It's all a careful balancing act but supporting businesses where you can at this time I think is a good thing to do.

This is set against the desire to keep the economy running as best we can. We want as many people to stay in productive work, earning and paying taxes, as is safely possible.

As far as I know Royal Mail and general couriers don't have capacity problems. It's the supermarket deliveries that have completely collapsed, they're a separate thing specialised to deliver large orders of goods some of which are perishable.

I would have no qualms ordering "non-essential" stuff online. (On the other hand I don't have the money for much discretionary spending right now, but that's another matter).

I think it is a good idea to help our postmen /women by keeping our knockers and flaps clean/regularly sprayed.