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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to refuse to take annual leave?

70 replies

Toddlerteaplease · 28/03/2020 07:45

I'm a paediatric nurse. We have hardly any patients as all our elective surgery has been cancelled. The whole unit is the same. We are being told to take tine owing or annual leave. I don't have any time owing and I don't want to use up my annual leave as it's got to last a year. Can we be forced to take it? I live on my own, so finding the isolation tough going and work was saving my sanity.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 28/03/2020 08:20

Presumably when things can get up and running again there is going to be a massive backlog and therefore you will be exceptionally busy so if people can’t (won’t?) be redeployed then it makes sense for them to take holidays now while they can to help deal with the situation when busy again?

I know DS is going to have a very busy period of tests and appointments when things finally get up and going again

BreathlessCommotion · 28/03/2020 08:20

Legally they can make you take annual leave. Especially as your ward is closed. Like factories that used to close for 2 weeks in the summer and everyone had to take annual leave.

I work in employment law.

foobio · 28/03/2020 08:22

Unless there is anything specific in your contract, an employer can force you to take annual leave, as long as they give twice as much notice as the length of leave (e.g. 2 weeks notice for one week off). Lots of employers are doing this at the moment. Gov website guidance: www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/booking-time-off-

chatterbugmegastar · 28/03/2020 08:22

I'd get off your bum, then OP, and do something useful in the hospital

shazkevincarrotlover · 28/03/2020 08:24

Yes they can make you use it up if your not required at the moment. It will come under needs of the trust.I was a hospital dental nurse and when the dept was quiet I would be sent to the wards.Although I'm not medically trained I am a dental sedation nurse and would be sent to help in theatre and recovery as my skills cross over.I now work in practice and have be furloughed for the time being but the BDA have said we are to be redeployed so I'm pretty sure you will be too eventually.

Original poster
Toddlerteaplease · 28/03/2020 08:24

I'll gladly get off my bum if someone tells us where to go.

OP posts:
dontdisturbmenow · 28/03/2020 08:25

With 33 days to take for many NHS staff, yes, they should make those who can't be redeployed take some time off so they can be available when things come back to normal except normal will be double the activity and workload to make up for the lost time.

We're not talking about half the time but certainly not letting people accumulate all their leave until August.

diddl · 28/03/2020 08:27

If Op hasn't been been particularly busy (for a nurse!) then I would have thought it would be better for her to work so that someone else how has been busier could rest?

chatterbugmegastar · 28/03/2020 08:29

I'll gladly get off my bum if someone tells us where to go.

You could ask your boss

You could ask the boss of the busier departments at your hospital

You could ask the head of the hospital/trust

You could email Mr Hancock or the CMO

You could offer your services as a volunteer along with the 500,00 other people who have done this

If I were you I'd choose to be proactive rather than reactive

Original poster
Toddlerteaplease · 28/03/2020 08:31

I'm happy to offer my services as a volunteer although I class as high risk as I have MS , so need to be a bit careful.

OP posts:
ChasingRainbows19 · 28/03/2020 08:31

Same in my area although numbers are increasing we are managing and have done an amazing job of creating/freeing beds. Still empty beds all over the hospital . Staff also been redeployed from community to help in adults. The high numbers haven't reached here yet.

We've been encouraged to take our leave as normal and planned for now......

EmergencyPractitioner · 28/03/2020 08:34

You need to be proactive and email the clinical matrons in other departments
My hospital are desperate for ED receptionists and administers so my daughter back from Uni has applied.
I have also been sent a letter asking me if I have any extra time available to support 111 calls.

Xenia · 28/03/2020 08:36

There is a new rule today for all employees NHS or otherwise that they can carry annual leave into next year www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066635 however I do not know what the NHS contracts say etc.

i would have thought even if they put medical staff on standing near coronavirus patients doing basic tasks that is surely better than paying people to stay at home.

Original poster
Toddlerteaplease · 28/03/2020 08:38

I'm not worried about not using it up. I'm worrried about having to use it all up
And having none left for later in the year.

OP posts:
VadenuRewetje · 28/03/2020 08:40

yes employers can make you take annual leave at a time of their choosing - though they can't force you to borrow against next year's annual leave allowance if pp is correct that the annual leave year starts on 1st April. they would be perfectly legally entitled to then make you take your full year's allowance from 1st April for the next 5 weeks.

I have no idea what this would require but surely some additional training to be able to work with adults would be something that could be organised for nurses in this position?

lljkk · 28/03/2020 08:41

There was another thread on MN with a few posters insisting that everyone's holidays had to be cancelled in 2020, OP. Maybe 2021 too. People should be forced to go back to work this July/August (other people argued at me). I'm glad you've found support here & hope you sort something out.

elspethmcgillicuddy · 28/03/2020 08:47

If you want to be helpful and useful take your annual leave now. You say you just want to help but actually you
being out of your house potentially spreading the virus and then waiting until staffing is low later in the year is the least helpful thing you can do. Take one for the team, OP. Go home and use your leave.

vdbfamily · 28/03/2020 08:48

can you afford to take some unpaid leave? It is a tricky situation and a HR nightmare for team leads in the NHS trying to do the right thing by everybody. Are there jobs in your hospital that you never have time to do? Redecorate, tidy and clean. Could you plan a notes audit? Some online learning you have never had time to do? Teaching junior staff, etc. I think in a couple of weeks we will know more where we are and where we are going. The'surge' is expected over next week or so and then they will plan next phase so maybe agree to a couple of weeks but not more. NHS a/ l is incredibly generous compared to most companies. I have staff on 10 years plus who have 8 weeks a/l once bank holidays are added too.

OtherVoices · 28/03/2020 08:48

Why aren't they moving you to a busier dept?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 28/03/2020 08:48

Take care Toddler. If you are high-risk then ask to be deployed somewhere safe.

I'd be distraught at having to give up AL, especially as I use it to provide care for elderly relatives.

Many workers are going to want to see their elderly relatives when this is all over and many will have significant care needs to fulfil.

Original poster
Toddlerteaplease · 28/03/2020 08:49

@Sirzy we would usually have 5-8 elective patients a day. We are going to have an enormous back log. Especially as surgery was cancelled over the winter because we were full to bursting with bronchiolitis.

OP posts:
possumgoddess · 28/03/2020 08:49

Where I work people from all departments are being redeployed. People who were clinical before taking on managerial roles are helping out in wards, admin staff are working wherever they are needed. I note that you work in a children's hospital.... But I am surprised they don't have an arrangement with another hospital in your area to help them out with staffing, when the NHS are begging for volunteers and for retired nursing and medical staff to help out. Maybe look into that? You may not be trained to nurse adults, but some jobs are the same regardless of the age of the patient.

londonrach · 28/03/2020 08:54

You should be redeployed... we are as is someone i know in ahp...physio, podiatry, speech therapist, etc. Youve more clinical skills than others..

heartsonacake · 28/03/2020 08:54

Yes, employers have the right to dictate when you take your annual leave.

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