Another nursery fees one...

[Floopyandtired]

My DS’s nursery is fully closed due to the public health crisis. They have sent several emails saying that although we aren’t obliged to, they will fold if we don’t continue paying full fees due to - amongst other things - high staff costs.

Given the government announcement to pay furloughed staff 80% of their salary, along with other legislation to help businesses, I asked the question whether they were still asking for full fees given they will now be getting additional help. And if they were still asking for fees, what would the money be going towards, e.g. would we get some “credit” when everything settles down, etc. I received an incredibly shirty response saying the company’s finances were none of my business but they would have to out “hundreds of thousands of pounds of loans” even if parents continue to contribute.

AIBU to ask why they still need full feels despite the govt. support? I’m genuinely asking because I admittedly don’t understand business. I want to be supportive but we’re struggling financially now so having to count every penny.

Thanks in advance.

Our nursery is remaining open for key workers, which we aren't so DS isn't going. They are charging in full for children still attending and originally emailed on the day they were told to close with a request that we pay 50% fees to ensure they could pay staff and that the usual April fee review would be postponed. They then emailed again to say that they were reviewing in light of the announcement about the 80%. They have now emailed today to say no fees for April for children not attending and the fee review is still postponed.

In my childs nursery, We have been charged 50% of fees for next 4 weeks.and nothing after that if your child isnt attending as a keyworker's. Im happy to support to an extent.

OP, I was scared of this initially, paying full fees if they are closed till further notice. I understand that yes, the nursery would fold up if they cant cover costs

But i think its unfair on me if im working from home full time and taking care of my child the nursery is meant to take care of at the same time ; and then i still pay full fees so they can pay their staff who sit at home??

As i said the conditions given to me by my nursery im ok with as im happy to support the little i can.

Since the govt has offered 80% they should use that to sort out staff costs.

Will the nursery still get money from the government for 2 & 3 year olds whilst closed? They could end up making a profit if they get 80% salary, gov contribution and full fees!

Thank you everyone. I’ve found the replies really useful. My DP says I’m too gullible and allow people to guilt trip me too easily, so these replies have helped me a lot. For clarity here was the nurseries full reply (identifying details removed)

“Because as you say, this is 80% of workers’ salaries. I have asked parents to contribute full fees to help support us, and to pay 10% as a retainer for children’s places. This situation is unlikely to have resolved itself by the time the furloughed scheme expires, we still have massive fixed cost overheads that need to be covered. Whilst the nursery finances details are not yours or anyone’s business it’s likely that we will also have to borrow over £200k to keep the nursery afloat on top of government schemes and fee incomes – we’re certainly not going to make money out of this situation, if that is your concern.”

I believe the nursery still gets 15/30 hours funding although the nursery said in a separate email that they actually lose money from that scheme. Not sure how accurate that is?

Our nursery have asked for full fees if we can,
strongly hinting that if we want the service to continue as before we should pay.

They are getting funding to cover 80% of their
salary bill, they are still getting 30hrs funding for my son, and they are being excused business rates for 2021.

If the issue is temporary cash flow there are temporary loans available with no interest for 6 months.

I think it’s downright cheeky to ask for fees as well.

My small limited company will qualify for non of these. I have lost one contract already and suspect I am about to lose another. I won’t be paying and if I have to find another nursery them so be it.

Our has been quite unclear but did say they would like us to pay whatever we could afford to help them keep going. I wouldn't be adverse to this but would be livid if I did make a contribution and they still folded after all. I feel quite stuck with it, I would hate to lose the nursery, our wages dont look to have to much of a knock but my husband isn't keen on paying for a service we aren't receiving, which I also get!

floopy that sounds like they want full fees PLUS the retainer?

In Ireland, Gov announced that they are covering creche staff fees for 3 months & extra assistance to creches regarding fees for insurance to ensure that they don't close with the caveat that they can't charge parents. Am I missing something with UK, thought that BJ promised 80% salary ?

I don't understand why nurseries are likely to go under if parents don't pay fees? It's not like the staff can go and work in another nursery or the landlord can find another tenant for the building while everything is shut down. And the demand for nurseries will be just as high when they're allowed to reopen.

We've been charged 50% for April, not sure what will happen after that. The communication between the nursery and parents has been terrible. Yesterday we received an email ranting about the fact that some parents had asked whether they would still be charged while the nursery was closed. I feel ok paying the 50% for the meantime, but once government help kicks in I would expect this to go down. I realise there are overheads such as rent and insurance, but we can't be expected to cover all of these costs when we aren't getting anything in return, while the business doesn't bear any of the financial burden at all! Who knows how long they are going to be closed for. In the email we received, the owner seemed to suggest that we were all still being paid therefore we should still pay the fees. This may be true for the majority of us at the current time, but it could be very different in a few months.

Has everyone seen this update on MSE.

It suggests nurseries should not be charging if they close.
www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/04/watchdog-to-investigate-coronavirus-cancellation-policies-/

Our nursery initially asked for full fees, once government aid was announced they asked for contributions, which will be credited to our account when (if. . . ) they reopen. I checked and our local authority is still paying for the 15/30 hours places this term, whether or not the nursery is open or closed. I would not be paying full fees with no credit. Once they can claim back the nursery workers wages, it will be backdated, so you are essentially covering other costs.

It sounds like they're in deep financial risk as their replygp rude and cagey, it's not up to you top them up, they should have some business reserves they can draw on, and you risk losing all your money if they go bust and you have to look for another nursery anyway.

that reply looks as though they want full fees and a retainer.

I'd probably reply that their finances are definitely my business if they are asking me to pay for a service that is not being offered just so they can keep in business and that I'd be worried if they weren't managing on full fees at this time with no children.

And then I'd offer 50% as a retainer (if you can afford it) and file and forget.

I work for local government and the central government advice is that if suppliers are asking for “help” or payment upfront this is to be done on an open book basis.
They are 100% wanting their cake and eating it by saying they are struggling without being open and honest about this.
In your shoes I wouldn’t pay the fees in full

Our nursery had full fees for March, they said that by the time the shutdown was announced wages etc had been paid, but it’s been zero fees from then onwards

They are 100% wanting their cake and eating it by saying they are struggling without being open and honest about this

That’s a load of rubbish. Many nurseries and childcare providers will go under after this. Especially as the government have now said they won’t be paying 80% of staff wages and nurseries are already hugely under funded as it is. People really have no idea

The government will no longer support nurseries
Please focus your anger and sign the petition
chng.it/MmcQpvjk4g

The government are now refusing to pay the 80% wages for nursery workers so unfortunately a lot of nurseries are likely to close without the support from parents.

I work in a big nursery which has been amazing so far and the owner is having to top up her staffs wages from her own bank account after little help from government. My sister who’s in a small nursery and is having to take unpaid leave because the staff are worried if they don’t, they won’t have a job to go back to.

My understanding is that the government are still paying the nursery for the 15/30 hrs free even though the child will more than likely not be in.

As the government are already funding these places they are saying that the staff should be paid from that money and not furlough as they dont want the nursery to profit from both.

Our nursery are being great and not charging. I wouldn’t be happy to pay a penny

But there are lots of childcare providers fully funded by parents- my daughter is only 2.5yr olds and we don’t qualify for any free hours yet.
The 15/30 hrs won’t keep them afloat during lock down .

In my view they could take many many more children than they currently do though... eg bankers, justice system / lawyers are on key worker lists. I bet the state will also not check if Mr Smith is exactly the kind of bank worker that is regarded as key so they should perhaps now start taking more and more children back under those provisions just as plenty have been open and charging throughout for some children.

My understanding is the same as @TheBusDriver. The government won’t pay the 80% AND the LA funding, as the business model they had pre corona should have seen some of the LA funding covering staff wages.

So in my head, my sons nursery has 0-5years. Simplistically, they can claim 80% furlough for the staff in the baby room and toddlers room, but can’t claim the WHOLE wage bill for the staff in the preschool room. And that will get completed as as a private nursery ours only accepts children on a 52 week basis so parents of 3 years plus were always paying the market rate for the holidays.

Claiming all wages as furlough and getting the funding is having their cake and eating I’m afraid. And this from someone who loves our nursery and is willing to pay a retainer so it’s there when this is over ( we have nomothetic childcare)

Our nursery asked for the full amount to cover April and aren't charging us anything until they reopen. They are a small private nursery.