To not want ds's headteacher to be telling reception the story of the 10 lepers on their third day?

[bearsmom]

DS (4.5, started school last week) came home from school today and happened to mention that the headteacher at his school came to his class today to tell them a story. That's nice, I said. Yes, he said, it was the story of the ten lepers. What, leopards? I said. No, lepers, he said. He then asked what lepers are so I explained as best I could.

I'm an atheist and so is DH, but all the schools around here are CofE voluntary aided or voluntary controlled so we had no choice but to send him to a "religious" school. In every other way it seems fine, and I knew when we applied for a place at the school that they'd be telling him bible stories (and I'm explaining to him that to us they are just that, stories) and going to church services. But somehow I wasn't expecting to have to explain to a 4.5-year-old about lepers and leprosy. It's a bit of a leap from teddy bears and bunnies!

Are there any other non-religious parents out there who have kids at a church school that really pushes religion? Or anyone else out there who has an opinion on this? I'm confident we can balance things out by making sure ds knows that people have a wide range of beliefs but I guess I'm just really shocked at the extent of the religiosity at his school and wonder if this school is unique.

as a minor side track it is no longer considered to be correct (or polite) to call someone a leper. The very worst they should be called is a person with leprosy (they are a person first, and most importantly, they happen to have a disease called leprosy).

The prefered terminology now is a person with Hanson's disease.

If you want to have a word with the head, but avoid the thorny issue of Religious belief, this would be the tack I'd take.

It is no longer acceptable, in the 21st centuary to define people by their diseases.

(so I was told my dh's uncle who works in irradication leprosy)

Sadly not so, MT. The six primary schools nearest to us (within 6 miles of our home) are all CofE, either voluntary aided or voluntary controlled. Of the 26 primary schools within 10 miles of us 21 are CofE.

Good point MB, thank you.

My dd1 goes to a county primary in our village, but if you live in any neighbouring village the schools are CofE - the only reason this one isn't is that the village Baptist church kicked up a stink.

As an ex-believer I am comfortable with explaining why I don't believe something is true whilst finding the worth in the stories.

If you don't think the 10 lepers is appropriate wait until Easter!

Since you have chosen to go to this school, rather than move or home ed, then you will have to accept the stories for their moral guidance, if not their absolute truth, iyswim. A CofE education can be very community-spirited, do a huge amount of charitable work, embrace Fairtrade principles and as MP said, the children learn cultural/historical heritage.

At our CofE Voluntary Aided School they have religious assembly everyday, prayers before lunch, Church on a Wednesday afternoon and a fair amount of RE as a subject. They have also studied other religions and celebrated other religious festivals. DD1 can often be heard singing hymns around the house but as my DH says, "I'd rather she was exposed to religion now than when she's in her 20's".

Sounds like ds's school is actually on the mild side! So now I'm just thankful that Bible stories, prayers before snacktime and meals, and the occasional church service are all we have to contend with.

But seriously, in a secular society such as ours I think it's sad that we would have to move or home educate in order to give ds an education which didn't foreground religion. Moral messages don't need to be wrapped up in religion.

Your local authority is extraordinarily over represented by CofE schools - I think you should campaign for change.

In England, 25% of state primary schools are CofE and yet in your area, where 21 out of 26 schools are CofE, that's about 80%? (at least I think it's 80%, my maths is a bit crap)!

Sorry - I've assumed you're in England!

Bearsmon, that's an extraordinarily high ratio of CofE schools in a 10 mile radius. Given that of the remaining 5 schools a couple are probably Catholic, there's almost NO secular school for miles! Do you mind telling us whereabouts you are? Just in case I should ever think of moving there!

We're in rural Wiltshire, near a small market town. We've only lived here for a couple of years, though I grew up in a rural area. In between I lived in a city for more than 20 years, where religion didn't play any part in life unless you wanted it too. Here it's certainly thrust upon us more.

That 25% figure is an interesting one. I didn't realise the number of church schools here was so much more than the English average and I will get in touch with the education department to ask why there's no provision for a secular education in our area.

I must say that we loved the religious part of our Catholic school life - our school backed on to the church and we spent playtime amongst the gravestones. We had mass every week and best of all Benediction which was wonderful with it's rituals and insense. During Lent we used to practically fight to be the ones chosen to read the stations of the cross every lunchtime ! I am now a lapsed Catholic with Buddhist leanings, I still light candles though and occasionally go to Mass. I try to live a spiritual life based on bits of both - Buddhism seems to be a sensible way to follow !

I don't mind the stories, it's the praying and singing hymns that would bother me more and I don't think there is too much of that luckely.

why though ? singing hymns is harmless

er, yes, you are being unreasonable, you send them to a church school, they will be taught bonkers church things. Send them to a chruch secondray school and their sex education will consist of being told that its best to know that you want to wash someones socks before you marry them. Thats what was taught in my friends dd's catholic shcool. And then there is that being gay is a sin, and all that claptrap. I can understand that you had limited choice - we're in the same position, but really, you can't expect anything less than, well, religion, when you send them to a religious school. Just feel lucky that hell is out of fashion now and so hopefully they'll leave out the fire and brimstone bit. At least til next year.

sorry, actually, maybe thats unfair. I shouldn't have been so harsh - I apologise. ITs just faith schools really get my back up, they are so divisive, and what gets my back up even more is that so many of us are forced to swallow all theit baloney as its a choice between a faith school, a shit school, and a private school thats miles away and we couldn't afford it anyway. So sorry, shouldv'e been more supportive.

I think its constructive to register your distaste with the head, and ask for the religion to be a bit more age appropriate. And you could also tell your dc to take the whole lot with a pinch of salt as its just one group of people's interpretation of everything, and that lots of other groups of people have other interpreations.

Good luck, and sorry again - I know education is just such an anxious topic for everyone.

just remember they are stories think of it as another brothers grimm and you'll be fine, kids dont remember half of it to them its just another tale

I think it is a bit soon to be telling stories like that. I went to a CofE school and we used to get one religious assembly on a friday, the rest were secular and involved fun stories, puppets, Aesops fables....etc

As far as i recall, even the Vicar who took fridays assembly used to stick to the parables and always used to explain about the people in his stories.

I'm a pagan, DH is agnostic.. if i had the choice i'd still send my DS to a CofE school, simply because i loved my school and totally enjoyed my time there.

I went to a CofE primary and we only had a religious assembly once a week, whereas DS goes to a county primary where they seem to learn a lot about Christianity, have an extremely preachy Nativity play at Xmas etc. It annoys me actually, because if the school wants them to learn about religion, they should cover lots of world faiths, not just Christianity.

The story about lepers does sound a bit heavy going for a class of four and five-year old, and so early on in the term, tbh.

I was outraged when my year 6 daughter came home from her non-church state school with a booklet about moving to secondary school which contained such gems as "I found moving on the secondary school scary, but I knew I could ask Jesus to help me if I got into any difficulty"
Yeah, right."Jesus, what's the combination of my locker - and is it the 3x or the 3 bus I need to get home?"

Although it won't help now, I think that a basic understanding of Christian and other religions' principles will help your child's later education and understanding of literature, history, psychology and sociology. Although our society is predominantly secular now, so much of how we have been shaped is down to our collective religious past.

Also, I kind-of envy you that your school provides a structured moral upbringing. Our (in other ways outstanding) local primary is very secular, mainly because there are currently 26 different nationalities represented at the school. What this means in practice is a bit of gentle huggy "be nice to everyone" moralism, but it's very light frankly. I think children respond well to learning about morals in a structured way and these days there doesn't seem to be an effective secular structure in which to do this with children.

FWIW, I am agnostic and went through private schools with a semi-CofE link. My dh is a practicing Christian and my dds go to church with him.

I believe very strongly that they need to learn about Christianity and other religions - it's an essential part of a rounded education. I just think that the place for this is RE lesson - not assembly or, as in the example I gave earlier, in a workshop about the transition to Secondary school!

These are good stories with a moral content, whether you agree withthe religion or not. I'd be chufed if DS talked to me about the lepers story

Did anyone see Ed Balls on the BBC news last night, saying that the government plan to support the setting up of more faith schools because they are good for cohesive society?
I would have thought just the opposite. Dividing society by faith is not a good idea.

Faith should not be mixed up with education, especially in a multicultural society. Local state schools should be for everyone in the local community.

Do check carefully what your school religious assemblies involve before committing your children to them. You may be surprised that it is not just hymn singing. More fundamentalist forms of Christianity do find their way into moderate C of E schools. They are not 'out of fashion' as an earlier poster said.

and if you are a practising Christian, working in a church school, I would not expect it to be restricted to RE classes. Surely that's the point of a church school? The ethos permeates into all aspects?

Haven't read whole thread but the story of the ten lepers is a good moral one for children to realise that it is important to say thank you. I really think that manners are lacking in society today and so if you view it from that angle it must be a good thing.