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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Nursery changed terms - expecting full fees

77 replies

anotherdayanothername20 · 18/03/2020 20:12

Hi, our nursery changed their Terms at the start of March to say that if they had a closure due to Statutory Reasons (Government directed) we would still pay full fees....
What are people's opinions? And is this legal? We obviously don't want them to go out of business but also we can't afford to pay full fees and work full time either and look after children full time. None of it is adding up.

OP posts:
SapphireSalute · 18/03/2020 20:14

its standard....you pay it to keep your place

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 18/03/2020 20:15

It’s standard imo

Lazypuppy · 18/03/2020 20:19

Standard, the fees should mean staff get paid while they are shut.

You would normally be paying the fees anyway

MaryShelley1818 · 18/03/2020 20:20

It's really difficult as obviously Nursery are so important, ours do a wonderful job and the staff deserve paying BUT we won't be paid for sitting at home doing nothing and many other people won't be either. I'm currently working from home but measures are in place to reduce workloads and if I don't get paid I simply won't have the money to pay nursery. Maybe 50% to keep the space open and cover the bare minimum. I don't know what the answer is.

maddening · 18/03/2020 20:22

I would want evidence that they are paying their staff in full if demanding full fees, which I highly doubt having heard too many tales of nursery workers on zero hours being let go.

Jumanji89 · 18/03/2020 20:22

Yes fees are normally paid. However I think the point being made is paying fees but also having to take unpaid leave potentially. How can people afford to not earn but still have to pay for nursery

Slat3 · 18/03/2020 20:24

I have just given notice to our nursery for this reason. He is there until end of July (will be starting school in Sept) and if I take unpaid leave for the weeks required it will be cheaper. My husband works shifts so is off a lot during the week and I can WFH. I feel sick making the decision.

shinyredbus · 18/03/2020 20:24

Standard. Ours is closing and I’m still paying full fees or I lose my place.

Kastanien · 18/03/2020 20:26

How did they change their terms? Were you told about it and given a chance to decline or did they just present it to you as a done deal and ask you to keep paying?

Original poster
anotherdayanothername20 · 18/03/2020 20:35

A lot are contract staff, they have a skeleton full time staff at the moment. No chance to decline, it was just at the end of a Covid update that they had changed it, not pointed out what. Had to trawl through and find they'd added to points to the when you pay full fees... the fact they put in two new points (the other was a closure due to Emergency Weather!) makes me think they were slipping it under the radar..

OP posts:
strawberrylipgloss · 18/03/2020 20:46

I think they could deduct a little for food, nappies/wipes (assuming that you pay extra for these ) and utilities but I suspect that the majority of the fees goes on wages so I'd expect to pay.

PlugholePencil · 18/03/2020 20:50

Surely you would have had to sign your agreement to the updated terms?
It’s such an awful situation. Like other people have said, if I knew this was going to be for 30 days, I’d pay, but it could be for 6 months.
I had to close my business and now have lost my income.
My contract with nursery says they close for 2 weeks a year and fees are NoT payable during this time.
Our nursery is seeking legal advice regarding whether they can continue to charge if they close, but they aren’t currently proposing to close.
I feel stuck, it doesn’t seem fair that I have to pay when my child isn’t there and the government have said they are going to provide financial support to early years providers.

Tohaveandtohold · 18/03/2020 20:53

You would normally be paying the fees anyway
The difference is you would still be working then so would have money to pay them. How on earth do they expect someone to lose their wages because they can’t go to work due to lack of childcare and then pay full fees? It’s not as if parents pluck money from trees. They are not the only self employed people who are losing money and I certainly would not be paying them 100%. I would offer to pay between 25% to 50% based on what I can afford to keep his place and if they refuse, I would give notice and remove him. When all this is over, I Foresee lots of parents with no jobs so won’t need nurseries meaning you can easily get a place in another nursery.
By the way, you didn’t sign that agreement they put in the email so I don’t think they can enforce it.

Forallyouknow · 18/03/2020 20:55

I was looking at my nursery contract - it has absolutely nothing remotely related to this sort of thing- very basic. If they close, I have to work reduced hours to do the job I would be paying them to do normally- I cannot afford to pay full fees whilst also working less and full time care or potentially paying someone else for childcare in addition. The government has already promised loans /grants etc for businesses which they would be able to take advantage of - why do people think paying for a service which cannot be provided is acceptable? The original contract is frustrated deciding to add a clause without reference or proper notice would be difficult to enforce especially if you remove the child at the end of the same month they tried this on. I feel for them truly but if no one knows what’s happening with their income why should they get 2/3 months holiday whilst people struggle with less income and childcare? Potentially the staff not even being the ones to benefit?

Teacher12345 · 18/03/2020 20:55

Speak to the staff and see what they are getting paid. I did and they said they are expecting SSP only. In which case I will not be paying full fees!

kevintheorangecarrot · 18/03/2020 20:58

But how are we supposed to pay them if we are not getting paid from our own company (if we aren't able to work due to this coronavirus business)? Money doesn't magically appear out of thin air. They need to use their common sense.

WhatTiggersDoBest · 18/03/2020 21:06

I would tell them to jog on, the government is providing financial aid for small businesses hit by coronavirus, and that will include nurseries. They can't have their cake and eat it. Do all the taxi drivers out of work because of this outbreak demand money off their regulars? No. Hairdressers? Nope. Nurseries need to stop thinking they're different to other businesses and recognize demanding money off people for doing no work in return isn't a good look.

Original poster
anotherdayanothername20 · 18/03/2020 21:06

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/301836
We can sign this...maybe it'll get somewhere.

OP posts:
WhiteCat1704 · 18/03/2020 21:08

We pay for their service. If they are closed and not providing it we shouldn't have to pay.
While I will work from home I will be working at night due to lack of childcare during the day..why should I keep paying hundreds of pounds for nothing?

Thefaceofboe · 18/03/2020 21:22

We pay for their service. If they are closed and not providing it we shouldn't have to pay.

Unfortunately it doesn’t work like that. You pay for your child’s place not if they attend

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 18/03/2020 21:30

why should they get 2/3 months holiday what a vile way of looking at things! Guess you also think teachers teach because they want long holidays!

Look if you can’t afford childcare whilst not working I completely understand your predicament. But If you are paid to wfh or however your company is structured pay your fees! Our nursery is taking 25% off their fees and paying their staff, I will continue to pay as long as I have an income. If not I’d regretfully have to withdraw my child! But I in no way begrudge supporting a good nursery and fantastic staff as I am lucky enough to be able to!

KaptenKrusty · 18/03/2020 21:34

Nursery manager here - we’ve not decided what will happen yet - waiting for further instruction tomorrow to see what funding gov will provide - see if we can get rent relief and if we can get a business rate break etc - also need to speak to the insurance people tomorrow see what we can claim from them!

Technically our parents need to pay to keep their place (it’s in the terms and conditions)

Also we won’t need to buy in food and supplies and have external teachers coming in for extra activities and things like that -

so we will likely take those things into account all of these things and offer a discounted rate to the parents to keep us going while shut and they can keep their place :)

Our main goal here is paying the staff and being able to open up again once allowed

NikeDeLaSwoosh · 18/03/2020 21:38

No, this is unlawful.

You are in a consumer to business contract which is covered by the consumer contract regulations 2015.

Any term of the contract that could be considered 'unfair' (and the interpretation of this is very broad in favour of the customer) is not binding on you.

You are within your rights not to pay it, and not to be penalised for this.

KaptenKrusty · 18/03/2020 21:39

@Forallyouknow wow your attitude is pretty terrible - we don’t want to close - we want to stay open and continue providing our service! We are forced to close - why shouldn’t they get paid?

If you can’t afford to pay the fees while closed - then don’t - but then don’t expect your place to be held for you when they reopen.

NikeDeLaSwoosh · 18/03/2020 21:40

...and no, the contract cannot be as broad as 'you need to pay if your child is not here for any reason'

That is very likely to be seen as too far reaching and disadvantageous to the consumer.