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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Or is she being a CF

94 replies

nomorepeppax · 12/03/2020 21:51

So BIL GF fridge broke just before Xmas so partner lent her £500 for the fridge she wanted on the basis she pays back £40 every month. The first 2 months were a nightmare to get money from her and now my BIL and his GF have broke up. He tried calling her a few days ago with no answer so messaged her reminding her that she has to pay for this month. She ignored it for a few days so I messaged her today and she replied saying she can't afford it so we can take the fridge back. No problem, we could do with a new fridge anyway as ours was second hand when we got it. Got someone to come and help us collect it and she's ignoring all our calls and texts. Her mum then phoned me shouting abuse down the phone to me and my partner and we explained that we just want this sorted. She either pays us as agreed or she lets us come and collect it. She hangs up and has either turned her phone off or blocked our numbers. We went to ex GF house and no one is in and can't get hold of either of them. I messaged again tonight explaining that I can get someone to collect it tomorrow but if that's not convenient she'll have to bring it to us as they can't do it any other day.

I'm obviously fuming now because we helped her out when she was in need, but is now doing this. What can we do next? I don't want to keep calling/texting but I'm worried that she's going to keep ignoring us and we'll be out of pocket and won't even have the fridge! If she had replied asking for more time to pay etc then that wouldn't have been a problem, but the fact that she is ignoring us makes me think she's going to avoid us and keep it. Is this a case for a small claims court or would that cost more than it's worth?
TIA

OP posts:
Thepigeonsarecoming · 13/03/2020 01:40

Sorry but unless she signed some type of written agreement/contract to pay you back. Or you have messages voicemails where she’s agreed to this, you’ll just cost yourself more money in court costs. If she says it was a gift and you can’t prove otherwise

Idontknowmyownname · 13/03/2020 02:19

What is CF?

FrockFrockFrockityFrock · 13/03/2020 02:23

CF is cheeky fucker.

I'd try to get the money in case she damages the fridge and you go to pick up a broken fridge.

CF's mum is a CF too.

LangSpartacusCleg · 13/03/2020 03:19

Sorry but unless she signed some type of written agreement/contract to pay you back. Or you have messages voicemails where she’s agreed to this, you’ll just cost yourself more money in court costs. If she says it was a gift and you can’t prove otherwise

The OP implies that she has made payments in previous months (albeit with some hassle to the OP). I would argue that CF has recognised it as a loan.

Lynda07 · 13/03/2020 03:27

That's horrible, no reason from what you say that she can't afford to pay back £40 month - or let you have the fridge.

I am aghast at her mother yelling abuse at you down the 'phone! If I was her mother, I'd pay the debt for her if I could but, whatever, I wouldn't be so rude to someone who lent my daughter money. She sounds like a fish wife (no offence to any fish wives on here).

ukgift2016 · 13/03/2020 05:22

How ridiculous giving someone 500 quid for a fridge freezer.

If I was you I make an application for small claim court. It comes at a very small cost. Keep all the texts etc you can as evidence.

itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted · 13/03/2020 06:01

You've been incredibly stupid lending money to her especially as it now turns out she didn't even live with the BIL

You can try the small claims court but if she doesn't have any money then you're not likely to see your £500 again

I'd chalk this one up to one of life's lessons

Betsy86 · 13/03/2020 06:09

To be honest i would be wary taking the fridge from how she’s acting it wouldn’t surprise me if she did something to damage it so when you got it holme it would be useless and you will still be out of pocket and have a broken fridge.
Hold out for the money dont give in and small claims if needs be!x

nomorepeppax · 13/03/2020 08:23

I've text her this morning saying I'm sorry that things turned nasty yesterday. I didn't appreciate the phone call from her mum as I thought we could sort this between ourselves. I've asked her if there is anyone in her family that can help pay for it as I don't want her to be without a fridge again. I've said if she cannot pay then we will have to have the goods back. I've offered a day that I can collect and stated if she can't do that day then she will have to arrange for it to be moved to our property as I cannot get it another day.

I think this message is fair as I've now offered two dates that I can collect, both of which have been at times I know she can be there to let us in, so the balls in her court. If she does not reply I will inform her that I will have to go through small claims court.

Thanks for all the advice and for listening to me rant!

OP posts:
HollowTalk · 13/03/2020 11:07

Do you really want that fridge back, though? I'd rather have the money and choose my own, new, fridge. And I wouldn't spend £500 on it, either!

VitCSoup · 13/03/2020 12:09

Same^, I'd rather have my money back, than lumbered with someone elses choice of appliance

ViciousJackdaw · 13/03/2020 12:10

If you get no joy by Sunday, send a 'Letter Before Action'.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

There are plenty of templates on line if you need them. Make sure you send it tracked with a signature on receipt.

isitsummertimeyet · 13/03/2020 12:29

small claims, dont let her fob you off. Your good enough to help her out its the least she can do to repay you the money borrowed regardless of her relationship status..

nomorepeppax · 13/03/2020 12:32

We would rather the money but as she says she's unable to pay we agreed that we would have the goods back as it's better than not having the money or goods. Thank you for the link for templates as I was thinking about sending a letter so that I can prove I've tried in every way possible to sort this myself

OP posts:
timeisnotaline · 13/03/2020 12:37

You’ve said you know she can find the money. Small claims and make her give it to you. Don’t accept the fridge back. It was her choice to have an expensive fridge, now she can pay for it, and if she offers the fridge back say no thanks you can sell it if you need.

TooTrusting · 13/03/2020 13:14

Issue an online claim via MCOL. The fee is either £35 or £60 depending on how much of the £500 is still owed. See here:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/789201/ex50-eng.pdf

The claim is for breach of contract.
In the particulars of claim you have to set out the terms of the contract and say what remedy you are seeking (ie the return of the remainder of the £500).

You need first of all to send a formal Letter Before Claim (letter before action is the same thing, it's just an outmoded term). You need to say that she has until x date to return the fridge or the compromise offer of taking it back is withdrawn (and the fridge must be in full working order and without any damage otherwise it will not be accepted) and you will then seek repayment of the full amount. The offer to receive repayment in instalments is also now withdrawn. If you haven't either received the fridge back in full working order by x date, or received £x (the balance owing) then you will issue a claim without further notice.

Then do it.

She then has to acknowledge the claim online and file a defence.

The court then notionally categorises it as a small claims track claim and sends out a Directions Questionnaire to each of you, which you fill in (saying which your local court is, that you agree it is appropriate for the small claims track etc)

You then get an order assigning it to small claims, to the defendant's local court, and a timetable for the hearing and service of witness statements.

Then you just go through the motions, your statement will simply tell the story of how and when the agreement was reached, and you attach to it all the texts etc as evidence. Deal there with the offer to take the fridge back but that has now been withdrawn and you want the money.

There will then be a short hearing, which will be fairly informal and the judge will guide you both through it.

The poster who said you have no claim is entirely wrong. You do. I can't see what defence she'd have, particularly when she's texted you conceding she owes you the money, saying she can't pay and offering you the fridge back.

Money Saving Expert forums are very good for advice on this sort of thing. There is one about private parking charges which has a step by step guide to the process (albeit written for defendants, whereas you will be the claimant, but it explains the process very clearly and all the stages). See here:
forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking
The 3rd and 4th threads are the ones which will give you general info about how small claims work (although the guidance will be focused on dealing with private parking charges)

Knucklehead101 · 13/03/2020 13:29

Maybe because she didn't ask her mum to ring up, she might have done it because she was worried about her daughter. She's just split up with her partner of six years so she's bound to be feeling pretty awful. Can you accept a lower payment?

heartsonacake · 13/03/2020 13:38

She’s just split up with her partner of six years so she's bound to be feeling pretty awful. Can you accept a lower payment?

Knucklehead101 Why should OP accept a lower payment? They weren’t split up for the first few months she was meant to pay them back and then never did.

Feeling awful doesn’t give you the right to steal from someone else.

nomorepeppax · 13/03/2020 13:47

So we have received £80 so far so obviously we won't be claiming for that. I wouldn't have minded her mum calling if she was going to help us mediate and come to an agreement, but she wouldn't let me get a word in. Just shouting from the minute I answered. Their relationship is completely separate to this. I have told her this and would be doing the same if they were still together. At the end of the day she needed help, my partner helped her and they came to an agreement regarding the repayments. She hasn't kept to her part and told us to collect the fridge. She is now ignoring all contact and has actually blocked me from social media, so I do think she is planning to ignore the issue and hope we go away. Unfortunately we're not going to. It's a reasonably large amount of money and we're not prepared to let it go.

I am going to write up a letter today to send it to her as I can't see us sorting this any other way

OP posts:
nomorepeppax · 13/03/2020 13:48

And thank you @TooTrusting your advice is really helpful!

OP posts:
TooTrusting · 13/03/2020 14:10

Do NOT take a lower sum! Why should you? As it was she had an interest free repayment schedule of just over 12 months! You will easily win this in a small claim.

Where you plead a contract, you need to say if it was reached orally or in writing. If orally, you need to state where, when and how it was agreed - this is what the court rule says:

"7.4 Where a claim is based upon an oral agreement, the particulars of claim should set out the contractual words used and state by whom, to whom, when and where they were spoken.

7.5 Where a claim is based upon an agreement by conduct, the particulars of claim must specify the conduct relied on and state by whom, when and where the acts constituting the conduct were done."

So you must say for instance roughly what date the agreement was reached (you say "on or about x date"), where you were and what was said (and refer to any evidence there may be). Go on to say what instalments were paid and when, and what she is in breach of (ie failed to make the instalments due on x, x and x, and has now refused to pay any further instalments).

If you want to read the rule and accompanying practice direction which supplements the rule, here are the links:
www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16
and
www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16/pd_part16

The language used is a bit "stiff" so don't panic, it's not as tricky as it may appear at first. Read 16.1-4 of Rule 16 and paras 1-3 and 7.3-7.5 of Practice Direction 16.

Something slightly confusing is that the rule provides for you to either include the particulars of claim with the claim form, or within 14 days later. With a small, simple claim like this you'd include the particulars in the relevant box, with no separate particulars to follow (that provision is for more complex claims where the particulars may run to many pages). So ignore all the "if the particulars of claim are served separately...." bits in the rules.

You should say if you are seeking interest (you are entitled to do so). Calculate that at 8% on a daily rate. So if she owes £420 then the interest is 9.2p per day, so you calculate when she should have paid you and the number of days since x9.2p and the continuing at the rate of 9.2p per day. Just leave it out if you don't want to claim it (it's probably peanuts).

The wording to use at the end of the claim where you have to confirm what remedy you are seeking is that you are seeking damages for breach of contract in the sum of £420 and costs (you can only claim the amount of your court fee and I think you can claim loss of earnings for attending court and travel/parking costs.

The rule/practice direction specific to small claims is here -
www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16/pd_part16
and
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16/pd_part16justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27/pd_part27" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16/pd_part16justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27/pd_part27

If you google it, there will definitely be government guidance to MCOL and how to make small claims and fill out the forms.

HollowTalk · 13/03/2020 14:12

If you go to the small claims court you will get the money back. They won't insist on you having the fridge.

TooTrusting · 13/03/2020 14:13

I've just googled that: here it is -
www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money

I would advise you not to take advantage of the mediation that is given as an option. It's utter rubbish (I've done it myself) and just delays things to her advantage.

TooTrusting · 13/03/2020 14:18

In my first post, I said that in the Letter Before Claim you could give her x days to return the fridge in full working order.

You don't have to do that. You could just say that you are no longer to extend the compromise of receiving the fridge in full working order in lieu of payment and that offer is withdrawn (and was not accepted by her in any event), and that you want full payment within x days or you will issue a claim without further notice.

I agree with all PPs who say you should be nervous about her sabotaging it deliberately (or even inadvertently, eg by laying it flat when they deliver it which I believe can ruin its cooling mechanism). I'm not sure also how this would affect the warranty if it's been in someone else's possession for months.

TooTrusting · 13/03/2020 14:18

*no longer willing

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