To refuse to take DS to hospital for a sprained ankle

[Paurie]

He twisted it badly enough that it can’t weight bear. I’m confident it’s not broken. Strapped it up, iced, elevated - & picked up a crutch so he can be mobile without stepping on it while it heals.

School say the crutch can’t come to
school unless it’s signed off as necessary by a doctor and is fitted by a professional.

AIBU to refuse & just keep him home?

It seems really not sensible in this climate to burden doctors with signing off on a self-limiting problem that I’m confident I’ve treated correctly - and batshit crazy to take a healthy child to sit being sneezed on in minor injuries unit for however many hours it takes to be seen.

I’m getting a hard time - but I have followed the NHS advice to the letter.

Phoned 111.

Message said extremely high call volume & to check online.

Online it says:

Go to A&E or call 999 if:

you heard a crack when you had your injury
the injured body part has changed shape
the injury is numb, discoloured or cold to touch

Get advice from 111 now if:

the injury is not feeling any better after treating it yourself
the pain or swelling is getting worse
you also have a very high temperature or feel hot and shivery – this could be an infection

None of these apply - but following the advice and caring for it at home is a social services matter....? 🤷🏻‍♀️

If it was my own ankle, I'd do exactly as @Paurie suggested in her OP - rest, ice, strapping and elevation. But if it had been one of the boys, I would probably have taken them to A&E.

We had something similar with ds2, when he was about 10. He was titting around and fell backwards, and used his hand to break his fall. He complained that his wrist was painful, immediately afterwards, but this seemed to settle with Calpol, there was no obvious swelling or deformity, he slept well that night, and played football with friends after church the next day - but when he got home, he tried to boost himself onto the worktop, and collapsed in pain.

Dh thought he was dramatising, and his exact words to me were "I'm going to take him up to A&E so they can tell him it's not bloody broken!" I thought this sounded sensible, and packed them off (I was up to my eyes in emulsion, painting our bedroom, otherwise I'd have gone). Half an hour later, dh rings me to tell me the wrist is broken and they are waiting to have it plastered.

So, with kids, better safe than sorry.

My dad was the same as you OP. I slipped down the stairs when I was 14 and landed awkwardly, foot swelled and went black immediately, he said oh just a sprain you don't need A&E.

Tried to get me walking and I was sick everywhere, went to A&E and had fractured my ankle and my 3rd and 4th metatarsals.

He felt vvvvvvvv guilty. Especially when they mentioned surgery.

Get him checked. You've not got XRay vision, you can't possibly know it's just a sprain.

OP, I feel really sorry for you because on here people are usually castigated for going to A&E and selfishly putting pressure on the NHS. I flinch when I see those comments because it inevitably leads to situations like this where you feel obligated to not use the health service you need out of a sense of moral duty to society. But this is one of the things that the NHS is for and you do need it right now so don’t feel that you shouldn’t go to hospital in these circumstances. You aren’t wasting their time.

I sound quite sensible. He's pain free and having first aid treatment at home.
A&E are just going to diagnose and give advice on pain relief but if he's not in pain...
I would still seek medical treatment before the day is out though, just incase he needs stronger pain relief and the risk of developing capartment syndrome.

Your idea to stay out of A&E if you can makes a lot of sense.

Here is another idea: if you can afford it: go to see a private physiotherapist. Find one in your area, call them, tell them you are self-pay, book an appointment. Cost is probably between £50 and £80 depending on area.

A decent physio will be able to tell you either "it's definitely not broken" or "it might be broken, better get an X-ray".

You can check whether it is serious, without going to A&E. Maybe the school will even accept your son back in with the physio's blessing.

This is the information for general breakages. And I’ve also just checked on nhs and have found differing advice to that you’ve posted op. I’ll pop on the screenshots I found from their website.

I don’t understand why you would even phone 111 in these circumstances. My DS walked around on a fractured foot for 4 days because he didn’t tell me he had hurt it. I took him to minor injuries, fully expecting them to say it was a sprain, so was pretty shocked when they said it was fractured and booked him into the fracture clinic.

No one is going to turn up at A& E for corona virus & A& E is already staffed for accidents/emergencies. People concerned about corona are phoning 111 so you are stopping them getting advice whilst not getting medical assessment for your child. Bonkers!

No you haven't.

You have followed your idea of what you think the nedical advice is, and been very selective about where you looked.

It does not say "ONLY seek medical treatment if you can tick one of these criteria", and this is what it says if you check on online for broken ankles

Broken ankle

Get medical advice as soon as possible if you think you have broken your ankle. It may need treatment to heal properly.

Do not worry if you do not know if your ankle is broken, dislocated orsprained. Get it checked by a doctor.

Urgent advice:Call 111 or go to an urgent treatment centre if:

You have had an injury and your ankle:

is painful, bruised or swollenhurts when you put weight on itfeels stiff and is difficult to move

Find an urgent treatment centre

Immediate action required:Call 999 or go to A&E if:

your ankle is at an odd anglea bone is sticking out of your ankleyou have a bad cut or wound on your ankleyou're in severe painyour toes look blue or white, or feel numbWhat we mean by severe pain

Things to do while you're waiting to see a doctor

Doraise your ankle if possiblegently hold an ice pack (or a bag of frozen peas) wrapped in a towel on your ankle for 15 to 20 minutes every 2 to 3 hoursstop any bleeding – put pressure on the wound using a clean cloth or dressingif your ankle is not at an odd angle, wrap it loosely in a bandage to help support itremove any jewellery on your ankle or toestake paracetamol

Don'tdo not take ibuprofen until you have seen a doctordo not eat or drink anything in case you need surgerydo not move or put weight on your ankle if possible

Treatments for a broken ankle

You'll usually have an X-ray to check if your ankle is broken and see how bad the break is.

If you have a very minor break, you may not need any treatment.

For a more serious break, you may need:

a special boot to help support your anklea plaster cast to hold your ankle in place while it healsthe bones to be moved back into place by a doctor (they'll give you an injection to numb your ankle)surgery to fix the broken bones

You'll usually have follow-up appointments to check your ankle is healing properly.

How long it takes to recover from a broken ankle

A broken ankle usually takes 6 to 8 weeks to heal, but it can take longer.

The doctor will tell you:

how long you'll have to wear the boot or have the plaster cast onhow much weight to put on your ankle – you may be given crutches or a walking frame to help keep weight off it

Once it's healed, use your ankle as normal. Moving it will stop it getting stiff.

You may need to see a physiotherapist. They can help you with exercises to get your foot and ankle gently moving again.

Ask your doctor when you can return to contact sports or other activities that put a lot of strain on your ankle.

Things you can do to help during recovery

It's important to follow any advice you're given by the hospital or fracture clinic.

There are some things you can do to ease pain and help your broken ankle recover.

Do

www.nhs.uk/conditions/broken-ankle/

The nhs website says if you think there could be a break then to go in. The information you posted reads as a delayed response. Also to add to the experience stories my 2 year old fell on her wrist last summer cried and kept saying it hurt. We took her straight Away and she started using it whilst there. They still took an X-ray and sent us home the next morning we had to go back because she had broken her wrist in two places. They used a splint and she used it fine the whole time the splint was on but they said she could have some so much more damage had she not been treated.

Not long ago I took DD to the GP for persistently sore/weak ankle. They sent us straight to A&E where it was x-rayed and the results provided in less than an hour and a half. They're geared up for these things, they're not all sitting around waiting for Covid 19 related issues.

Unless you have x-ray vision you wouldn’t know if it was broken. I broke my ankle and did my ligaments as a child and my mum (who is a nurse) is of the “go to school it’ll be fine” school of thought. She did relent the morning after and took me to a+e where it was x-rayed and was broken. I don’t really understand this 48 hours thing, they don’t tell you to come back in 48 hours if you attend a+e with a potential broken bone, I’ve been quite a few times with broken bones, they examine you and x-ray.

Take him to a+e and stop being ridiculous.

Is it swollen or bruised?

I badly sprained my ankle over 20 years ago and didn’t get it seen to quickly enough. I still suffer with pain as a result of it now.

SDTG

If it was my own ankle, I'd do exactly as@Pauriesuggested in her OP - rest, ice, strapping and elevation. But if it had been one of the boys, I would probably have taken them to A&E.

Yup. If I damage my ankle through delaying treatment, that's on me. I won't play 'is it a sprain?' and risk buggering the joint for someone else's lifetime, especially as children's injuries present very variably.

The nurse I saw at A&E was quite certain my ankle wasn't broken either. She even asked me to try and put weight on it (after I said I couldn't).
She actually apologised when I came back from
X-ray an hour later (not 48 hours ) and they found it was broken in 4 places requiring surgery.

Yes I am quoting | NHS advice

I’ve done those instructions to the letter!

Blinkin heck I was always twisting my ankles as a child, they came up like balloons, mum iced them, rubbed on Ralgex, bandaged tightly and elevated on a stool in front of the TV during evenings and I hobbled around daytime.

In hockey they were always getting bashed, strapped up and I hobbled around more.
Horses have stood on my foot and fractured a small bone or 2 ,that hurt for 6 months but carried on walking.

Mum always said" you'll suffer in later life"...and I don't but then I actively try to stay moving.

However, if he is unable to weight bear in 48 hours then by all means get it Xrayed.

Paurie

Broken ankle

Get medical advice as soon as possible if you think you have broken your ankle. It may need treatment to heal properly.

Do not worry if you do not know if your ankle is broken, dislocated or sprained. Get it checked by a doctor.

Urgent advice:
Call 111 or go to an urgent treatment centre if:

You have had an injury and your ankle:

is painful, bruised or swollen
hurts when you put weight on it
feels stiff and is difficult to move

Source: www.nhs.uk/conditions/broken-ankle/

I don't know what is more astonishing..... The fact you are so blasé about a possible injury to YOUR CHILD or the fact you cannot see how you are acting. When did any guidelines over ride common sense?! When it comes to the possibility of a break you don't take chances with a child. It's your job to parent, not be pissed off about an uber ride and a long wait

I would of had my dog checked quicker then you have waited. Your 'fine ill go get him checked' is the same brattish response you'd expect from a teenager not a grown adult

Yabu, go along to minor injuries unit if you have one or a and e if you don't at a quieter time ie not evenings or weekends and just sit and wait with a book for your turn.

It's likely to be a sprain or strain if:

you have pain, tenderness or weakness – often around your ankle, foot, wrist, thumb, knee, leg or back
the injured area is swollen or bruised
you cannot put weight on the injury or use it normally

And then it follows with cases where you need to seek further help from 111 or 999 - none of which apply.

I had a broken arm as a kid, my parents put a bag of peas on it and left me overnight. Next day we went to a school fair then eventually we walked to the hospital and I was treated.
Just take him to the bloody hospital you're mean if you don't!

Playing devils advocate here, but I wonder if the op is deep down just a bit worried about being in a hospital setting, given the whole coronavirus issues, and the prospect of sitting for X amount of hours surrounded by potentially poorly people is not appealing.
Then she came on Mumsnet hoping to validate her reasoning in that 'its just a sprain' but then everyone piled in. she has now done the right thing and taken her son to a&e.
I am obviously speculating a bit!
Fingers crossed it's just a sprain, you're seen quickly and he makes a speedy recovery.

You aren’t following NHS advice as you have ignored

“ the injury is not feeling any better after treating it yourself”

Your son is still unable to walk after taking pain relief, e.g not any better.

It is feeling better!

12 hours later he still can’t walk on it - but it’s feeling much better - and I’d expect that to continue.

I’m literally following NHS printed advice - what else are patients supposed to do?