aibu to question this?

[Justaquestion2020]

I have posted here in the hope someone could help. I’ve also name changed as it will be very outing and want to hide my other posts.

For anyone that has had a hysterectomy has it been on your medical records? What about if you had one at a private hospital, would it still be noted on you GP records?

A family member passed away in hospital very suddenly after a mistake by medical professionals. She had been in theatre for a total of 6 hours time for something that should have taken 30 minutes. We haven’t been told what fully happened in there. This was a day before she passed.

At the autopsy the pathologist listed her as having an absent womb. There is no mention of her having had a hysterectomy on her notes. Not anywhere. Every other time she has been in hospital/ to the Gp’s is down but no hysterectomy.
Her youngest child is 21, and I have been very close to her for All those years and have never known her to have a stay in hospital, take it easy, or have seen any scars, although I now know a hysterectomy can be done by a laparoscopy so scars aren’t are only small that way.
Her husband/children and close family have never known of her to have had one too.

Aibu to wonder what has happened? If it isn’t in her notes I question whether they needed to remove it during her time in theatre but haven’t noted it. Yes, I know they should do that. But, what else could have happened?

I do wonder if it was taken out during the final surgery, this is why I want to know. It wasn’t put in her notes from the hospital and she passed the following day.

My dad wouldn’t have told me at the time, but should he know then he would have said now. He is questioning it too.

My mum and I were very very close. Rarely ever secrets. I knew the ins and outs of my mother’s life. There would be no reason she would hide it from me. I see her daily. We used to go shopping/for lunch/ or if I just spent time with her she was never resting. My dad worked, so she was always up, dressed, cleaning, never seemed she could be recovering from an operation.

She only had one stay in hospital for a hip replacement. I was with her every day, spoke to the doctors. That was only a few years prior to her death and was at the hospital she passed at so almost certain it would have been on her medical records had she had it done then.

She was extremely close to her sister also, she doesn’t know.
If she had had a hysterectomy there would have been only 6 people who would have taken her/picked her up from hospital and none of us know anything about a hysterectomy ever occurring or any other hospital admissions.

It may seem irrelevant to a lot of people. But it bothers me and I just want to be able to understand it.

Her point isn't about her mum and dad not telling her, but why isnt it on the medical notes.

Maybe try PALS in the first instance, the hospital will have an office.

Is it at all possible that your mum’s uterus was removed during the surgery she had? If it was abdominal surgery it’s possible though of course it should be clearly written in the notes. Otherwise it’s rather a mystery. (Unless she had a huge haemorrhage whilst delivering her last baby and had an emergency hysterectomy but again would be in her records).

In respect of getting an apology, unfortunately you have made that rather less likely in engaging lawyers. Clinical negligence legal cases are almost exclusively about financial compensation. They do obviously find out the truth of what happened and why but they are not about seeking apologies usually. If they apologise now they would be weakening their legal position in terms of admitting liability.

Have you had round the table meetings with the hospital to try to understand what happened?

Sorry for you loss, it sounds very difficult and sad. Having unanswered questions must make it so much worse.

We have had meetings with PALs both whilst my mum was in hospital over her care and afterwards.
We also had a meeting with the hospital about what had happened. None of the people who treated my mum were there so lots of questions we had they weren’t able to answer except for reading from her notes.

If my mum never had a hysterectomy then the only possibility is that they did take it out during her last surgery, but if this was the case then it should have been on her notes.

Sorry for your loss, and that all sounds very strange. NOt sure how you go about finding out though. Best of luck x

It definitely sounds like there is something being hidden, and I understand your need for knowledge and closure. I hope you gat the answers you need op.

This sounds absolutely hideous for you and your family. Forgive my ignorance, I just wondered if it wouldn't be obvious in the post mortem that the hysterectomy was very recent? Would this be recorded on the post mortem? I really hope you get the answers to your questions

What was the operation she was having on the day before she died? Do her hospital records include the theatre notes? Was her last child born by Caesarean section or normal vaginal delivery? I’m wondering if there is a chance she had an emergency hysterectomy at the time of childbirth if there had been a haemorrhage?

As part of a hospital complaint, really you/your dad should be offered the opportunity to meet with the surgeon and discuss what happened. If there are ambulance-chaser solicitor’s involved now, this may be more difficult, and probably now in the hands of the hospital legal team.

When we had a meeting with the hospital. Both the radiologist and the surgeon wasn’t available. Both on annual leave. We already had a date in place for the inquest so had wanted the meeting before then to know what to expect.

Her last child was a normal delivery, a very straight forward birth. I was up the hospital with her, although not in the room.

I would assume if the hysterectomy had been done during that operation then it would have been obvious it was recent. There wasn’t much about it. Just said uterus absent, ovaries:
Etc. Like that.
To be honest, everything was such a shock at the time, that I was only really looking into what specifically related to my mums death. I bypassed that part and concentrated on What I thought was the most important. There were 1000’s of pages for me to read through.

The operation she had was to stop bleeding from her liver. Where they had assumed she was bleeding from after a liver biopsy the day before. In actual Fact she was bleeding from her femoral artery after an angiogram 4 days prior. Her bp had already dropped drastically after the angiogram and before the biopsy indicating internal bleeding. It is the most common complication of an angiogram into that artery.
Her whole abdomen was filled with blood. The bleeding from her artery showed on 2 scans in between having the angiogram and the biopsy, and 2 further scans after the biopsy. It was very clear to see even to someone like myself who hasn’t had any training. I obviously only see them once she had passed. Yet numerous healthcare professionals bypassed it and the surgeon failed to realise that her liver wasn’t bleeding at all. Well only until the surgeon accidentally cut it and it required stitches. So her liver was packed. Re packed and re packed because obviously she was still bleeding.

The professionals our solicitors have hired have said it is very very clear in the scans and by all her observations that she was bleeding after the angiogram. There was many times they could have stopped the bleeding had they recognised it, even once she was in theatre and it is apparently quite a simple procedure. Unfortunately that wasn’t the case. The angiogram wasn’t even necessary for what they thought my mum had.

We are meeting the solicitors, the radiologists and oncologist that they have hired with a barrister next month. I will be bringing this up with them again. But phone calls and emails I just always get ‘we will found out and get back to you. 2 years later and I still have no idea if she ever had a hysterectomy.

What was your mum's last surgery for?

Was the registrar unsupervised? Fainting and falling on a patient, injuring the patient in the process sounds like something out of a Carry On film, so unimaginable in a professional theatre setting if appropriately staffed.

It is very unimaginable. But it was the statement of the nurse who was caring for my mum in icu who was in theatre during surgery. If it wasn’t true it seems an odd thing to say.

When it was asked at the inquest, if a registra had fainted, the surgeon’s response was that students quite often faint when around excess amounts of blood etc. He didn’t see anyone faint but it could have been anywhere in the room and he may not have noticed.

I had a friend a couple of years ago who lost a relative in very traumatic circumstances due to hospital negligence. She asked for no compensation but there were some major overhauls in procedures in the hospital because of her complaint. She used a charity called healthwatch who I believe helped her find out how to go about making a complaint and following it through.

I had a laparoscopy at a private hospital and they told me that they don't share records or any data with the NHS however the nurse gave me a letter to pass on to my GP. Obviously the NHS will only then know if I actually handed in the letter or tell my GP.

Every time I have had an operation I have been asked about previous operations and they have then been in my notes so if you have your mum’s full medical history you might be able to see those notes when she had her hip operation and also the final operation.

Ring your solicitors and instruct them to do part 18 questions about what happened to the womb.