To think renting to smokers and students, but not families, makes no sense?

[dreamingbohemian]

Just started flat hunting (oh joy!) and saw what seemed to be the perfect flat, only to see at the end:

Smokers ok
Students ok
No families

AIBU to think this makes no sense?

If he's worried about kids damaging the flat, why rent to smokers? It's a furnished flat, the smoke will get in the sofas and mattresses and everything.

If he's worried about noise and the neighbours, why rent to students, they can be really noisy.

The flat doesn't look dangerous or anything. Just wondering why landlords don't rent to families?

I would normally never in a million years send that email where you try to convince someone that your own child is not a problem -- but honestly, I have one 10 year old who is super quiet and neat, and this flat could be perfect. So just trying to figure out what the logic might be, and whether I should try an email anyway.

Given that students and smokers can be either sex, but there is a statistically higher chance that a family or person with children would be female I would imagine you've got a good chance to claim indirect sex discrimination. After all part time workers won s case on the presumption more are female than male.

I’d take it to mean that he doesn’t want to be a responsible landlord. Smoke creeping into your bedroom, music blasting at 3am. Those things are harder for a landlord to ignore if a child is being impacted.

Thanks Summercat :)

Those profit margins are insane! I can see why landlords do this, it's pretty horrible though.

I was a student in London myself, but 15 years ago when it wasn't so crazy, I could live in a nice shared house in Zone 2 for 300/month.

This flat now is only a 2bed but still I can see the appeal of getting students in and then upping the rent every year.

I don't think landlords have to be logical, as long as they stay within the law surely they can choose who they rent to. I wouldn't stress about places that wont rent to you, look for the ones that will. I know that's obvious

Also to consider:
The vast majority of students will leave at the end of their course so if the tenancy is going wrong the landlord knows it will come to an end at some point without the long and expensive recourse to court action.

If one of the students stops paying the rent, maybe the landlord will loose 1/4 of the rent. If a family stops paying the rent the landlord looses all the rent

Very few students smoke

Student don't pay council tax

Students - parents assuring the rent (also a million to a room)
Smokers - charge a higher cleaning fee/deposit

I would suspect the flat already smells of smoke so rather than doing anything to rectify it, he is after more smokers because they won’t notice the smell.

I rent out a property and I don’t agree to smokers. I don’t mind students or children though. I think if you are going to accept one, that accepting the other one is little different. If anything, I’d prefer a family over students because of the property potentially being empty for several weeks at a time in the holidays.

There's also the possibility of a known or suspected sex offender in the block.

But I suspect it more that the flat is actually really minging and students generally don't care about that.

Oh god, I didn't even think about possible sex offenders -- it's true, anything is possible.

The flat certainly looks very nice in the photos, but who knows, perhaps they're outdated.

I know coconut is right and I should just focus on the properties that are available but there are not that many in our budget so it's frustrating to see one pass by because no kids.

I guess landlords are mostly worried about young kids but they can't really say no kids under 8 or something, it's kids or no kids.

Student houses don't need to as nice as family houses. Students are less fussy and have less requirements. Therefore a landlord can get away with cheap fixtures and fittings, get as many people in the property as possible and not have to deal with too many queries and complaints. It's more profitable in every way for the landlord.

Students can bring in much more money than a family can. Plus they're generally not that fussy about hygiene or having decent quality fixtures and fittings, so you can do it all on the cheap

Back when I was an LL, my insurance policies - 2 different firms - specified no kids (and no pets !)
but said nothing about students or smokers

Insurance companies are coldly dispassionate, only looking at past statistics of what they paid out and why
I've heard from fellow LLs that children can cause an awful lot of damage to carpets & walls
and families are more difficult to evict than single people

They then charged £450 to £480 a month for each student. So £2250 to £2400 a MONTH from each house. The council tax, and electric and gas and water rates were included, but that cost no more than 300 or so in total. So the landlords were making around two THOUSAND pounds a month profit.

Don't be so naive about money. They're turning over £2,250-2,400/month per property but you don't have enough information to go on to even begin to calculate their profit.

Smoking indoors is so 1990s and grim, as if anyone still does this.

I suspect the landlords just want students.

They're not allowed to say No DSS anymore so maybe it's their way of saying it?

Students have guarantors usually, aren't as fussy as families, they rent by the room so bring in more ££, they usually leave in Summer so the place can be let on AirB&B. Families are there more often, more wear and tear on the place, harder to evict if things go wrong, all sorts of reasons.

And yes, they can't say No DSS anymore so this is a way round it.

Families are advised by their local council to stay put until the bailiffs literally put them out onto the street - if they don't, they are regarded as intentionally homeless.

Single people tend to think 'fuck' and find themselves somewhere else to live before that point.

It's therefore far less potential expense in terms of ending tenancies, not having to then clear the place and pay for storage indefinitely of a million plastic toys, clothes, furniture, appliances, photos, Christmas decorations and the other detritus that a family attracts over a bunch of people whose worldly goods can fit into the back of a hatchback.

They are also less likely to be dependent upon benefits, don't have the same emergencies that lead to not paying the rent, etc, etc.

This is quite eye-opening actually, I didn't know the differences were so great.

I'm surprised insurance companies wouldn't charge more for smokers, aren't they more of a fire risk?

I guess I'm curious what makes some landlords rent to families anyway, despite all these drawbacks. Why do some landlords take the risk and others don't?

I genuinely thought students would be seen as riskier than families, they are more of a financial risk, many of them don't take care of the property, cause problems with neighbours.

I briefly lived in one student house in London and it was the filthiest thing I've ever seen. Someone destroyed the bin one night and after that everyone just threw all their rubbish in one corner of the kitchen and let it pile up! I didn't stay very long.

once it has been smoked in it will stink anyway, so only smokers will want to live in it. Smokers are not desirable tenants, so have little choice and are easy meat for bad landlords as few good ones will take them.

student letting is a specialist market, Mummy's little darling who has had its arse wiped for 18 years and so trashes the place - plenty such parents on here, sadly.

so it will be a slum for the skanks, and probably those who aren't clued up on their rights. As it is London there are plenty of suckers willing to rent a slum.

don't be one of them! Read your how to rent.

BTW 'no DSS' isn't illegal, don't believe the Shelter propaganda. What IS illegal is charging higher deposits. massive backfire there...

It is extremely logical as others have pointed out. The biggest risk with families is that the man leaves, the woman is a single mother whose benefits get delayed, or one of them loses their job. You cannot easily evict. It costs a fortune and takes forever. And families won't just move because they know they don't have to.

Students move on every year. A bad lot and at least you nkow they'll be gone by June. And yes - they have guarantors.

Students will have guarantors so the rent is secure. They also tend to be shorter term tenants so fuss less about dripping taps, squeaky doors and pesky things like smoke alarms. They tend to be younger and unaware of their rights so shit landlords will do things like unannounced inspections and the likes.

The smokers bit might not actually be that they are ok. When I let my flat out I specifically don't say 'no smokers' as people just hide it. I'd rather know someone smoked and get the jist of their attitude toward smoking indoors.

However with an iffy landlord it may also be a good way to have an easy in for keeping back their deposit.