Annoyed at colleague re flexible working

[ThatsNotMyCherry]

I’m a parent who has returned to work from maternity leave and I’ve had a flexible working request approved (1 day working from home). I know my boss doesn’t really like it but he’s accepted it. My bosses boss has recently decided to let everyone wfh a few days a week as staff morale is low and a few people have asked for flexible working. A colleague who is a good friend was recently aggressively attacking the idea to a group of us (including our boss) and I felt a bit upset as she knows I do it and would really appreciate more flexibility if it became available. Another colleague who I’m also friends with joined her and starting saying how ‘ridiculous’ people who want to work flexibly are. AIBU to think it’s a bit insensitive?

Tune*

I currently work for a law firm (for 2 more weeks!). Only our lawyers are allowed to WFH despite there being remote access to everybody. I’m not a lawyer, unfortunately, so I don’t have the privilege to WFH. Even though the company were downsizing from 4 office premises to 3 prior to my maternity and was a game of literal and metaphorical Tetris regarding furniture, floor plans and fitting everyone into 3 buildings. It was a point I raised prior to ML but it couldn’t be done for secretaries.

They’re good in terms of being flexible for working hours for all staff with childcare commitments post-maternity but they’re very rigid in terms of days; e.g full time is 5x 9-5:15. Part time is either 5 days a week on reduced hours or 2.5days per week. I’m very lucky they accommodated my request of 10-2:30. I’d have loved to have been able to WFH and it works well for the lawyers.

I see your point in that feeling though, OP. YANBU.

WFH is not the same as reduced hours and if you are wfh then nipping out to share childcare drop offs then you’re not pulling your weight and colleagues have to pick up the slack. Go part time or work from home as in WORK, not sharing drop offs. YABU

It's a shame that you don't have more of a diverse workplace in terms of life stage. It's really tough working in a team that has no other parents and therefore no real empathy. They may say they understand, but they just don't.

I hate to say this but during my 20s I was one of those people thinking 'Oh there goes Julie, leaving on the dot at 5pm like she does every day.' I had that ridiculous mentality that you had to be seen and be present in the workplace to do a good job.

Fortunately I have grown up a lot since then and had my own kids. My empathy and emotional intelligence has grown, particularly in regard to working parents. I work full time and wfh at least 1 day a week.

The other day I was at a strategy event on how to employ and retain the best people into the company. Top of the list was flexibility and work /life balance. Most forward thinking companies are embracing this.

Maybe bring this up in your next meeting

@Toomuchtrouble4me my contracted hours are 9-5 and I regularly work outside those hours including doing 2-3 hours after I have put my child to bed after 7pm. Drop offs and picks ups are at 8am and 6pm so no- it’s not a case of me not pulling my weight.

@Kateguide yes you’re right. Most of the team is very young and don’t have kids but they don’t call the shots. The ‘older’ people in the team who are senior are all childfree so they don’t really understand and they have often said negative things in the past about people who have children.

Ok - I misunderstood. Sorry.

YANBU. Working from home and flexibility is a huge trend that is evolving so they had better embrace it.

Firms (outside of industries that require employee presence such as teaching, care, retail and hospitality) that do not start offering flexibility will not be able to attract the right talent.

I, like many other people, would simply not work for an employer that didn't offer me that. As a mum it's non-negotiable for me.

To add, I absolutely expect to attend every assembly, performance and parents' evening . In return, I work happily outside core hours, work longer than 'contractual' hours and feel loyal to my company.

Sorry for posting on this thread I have reported it to get removed meant to start a new thread

Your colleagues are jealous.
YANBU. Working from home is becoming the future. As long as you are meeting the needs of your job role, it’s nobody’s business where you are physically located to do that.
Some people hate working from home due to their personality type...they need & perform better being around other people and leaving the house for the day. Others, for a multitude of reasons, work just as well (or better) from home.
Do what works for you & your bosses/company and don’t spend a moment worrying about what other people think.

To retain younger employees work from home and other types of flexible working is now more essential than high salaries. Companies who allow it manage to retain younger staff on lower salaries for much longer - pretty sure your CEO isn’t going to care if older employees don’t like it as they can be let go and younger replacements hired on lower salaries who do like it.

I heard of one firm that shuts its office one day a week and everyone works from home. I regularly work from home but we have good systems so colleagues know when I am online, in a meeting etc. I'd soon be pulled up if I wasn't doing my job or I wasn't attending meetings when WFH by dialing in.

Your colleagues clearly think that just because someone is in the office means they are working productively. Not the case at all.

They are out of touch - it's the future and Coronavirus is accelerating things - it's changing the culture.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/cognitiveworld/2020/03/03/coronavirus-can-we-embrace-remote-working-as-the-future-of-work/amp/

I think it's a shame you're colleagues are so closed minded but, oh well their loss?

But as pointed out upthread the coronavirus will probably drag them out of their mindset.

Just ignore them.

I still get surprised at threads like this and ignorance of flexible working in some work places.

I have had flexi time (flexible working hours with core times) since I started at my company (ex civil service privatised) for 35 years. Think start anytime between 7:30 and 9:30 and finish between 15:30 and 19:00, never be more than 11 hours up or 11 hours down. No more than two flexi days off a month. It has always worked. Yes there are days when you have to take your turn to be in at 8 or stay to 5 to cover the peak business hours but it works.

We introduced WFH in 1999, years before other companies, and were provided with all the tools and technology to do the job from home providing you had good performance record and a role that could be done from home.

These days throw into that part time or compressed hours pretty much on demand for a better work life balance or caring responsibilities or semi retirement and it works really well.

People stay at my company for decades.

Some employers and employees need to accept the change in working culture. I am sorry for all the women in here that have to fight this in 2020.

Disclaimer, obviously I fully appreciate not all jobs can be done from home or flexi time, but so many can but employers have closed minds.

We objected to a female in my last workplace condensing her five day week to the same hours but in a four day week, when it was discovered by staff members that she wasn’t working the hours the rest of us were working, though still paid the same.
Manager andTL didn’t care, staff did though.
To be honest, she was an absolute horrible bully, who shrieked and upset so many people, it was nice to be rid of her for at least a day.

The problem with flexible working is it quite often has a negative impact for the rest of the people.
We have a number of people on them fixed days off surprisingly practically all of them ether monday or friday meaning they always get a 3 day weekend ( know for a fact at least 3 picked these days for that reason could of got CC no problem ) meaning it's more or less impossible for the rest of us to get these days off.
Then have to listen to how nice it is to get 3 days in a row off.
Couple of them start early and finish at 3 so we can't have an early finish as it would leave us short.

My experience is that people are often very confused by the terms used to describe quite different arrangements.

Flexible working is a specific arrangement for an employee that varies their t&c but in a fixed way for a period of time. It is linked to individual needs of the employee. For example agreeing someone can work from home on a Friday to do drop off and pick ups. If agreed you can’t ask the employee to come in on a Friday.

Agile working, as it is described, is different. It is usually offered to sets of employees who get to align where they work and when they work around the needs of the job. Working from home on a Friday is an option but not if you are needed in work that day. Then you have to come in. It’s not a good option for people with fixed home responsibilities, like childcare.

Problems arise with agile working when people think they can’t be asked to be present or do a 9am conference call. They can and they need to be available.

There are many reasons why working from home part of the week if better, for health, the environment, work production etc

Have the people objecting got sound factual reasons for their objections or are they just against change?

If flexible working is being used as a form of childcare I agree that it is NOT a good idea. You can not do any job properly while looking after a baby/toddler. I say this a s a champion of FW.

I think presenteeism is such an issue in a lot of companies. The focus needs to shift to productivity. FW is a big change to the nowm and it takes a lot of people time to really understand the benefits.

As a manager myself I think if I can't trust this person to WFH why did I employ them.

So she shouldn’t have said what she thinks, for fear of offending you?

There's expressing an opinion sensibly and moderately, backing it up with facts, and then there's expressing an opinion aggressively and saying that people with contrary views are ridiculous. In the work context, the second course of action is unprofessional and really quite childish.

I think that where people object to flexible working it's when it is only offered to some people. If everyone is offered the option, then it's seen as much fairer to the entire workforce and people moan less - if they want it then they can arrange it and shut up complaining that Karen gets to leave at 3pm to pick up the kids!

Agreed Leigh. Where I last worked, although every job spec was marked “full time but applications for PT/FW will be considered” it was virtually impossible to work PT/flexibly unless a) you had young children or b) you were senior and had a lot of clout. Childless, middle or lower management? Forget it.