To think it shouldn't be this hard to get a passport?

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Hi all

So I have an Irish passport (Irish father on my birth cert and have lived the last two decades here) but am also a British citizen (I have a British mother, was born there, and lived the first ten years of my life there). I'm happy enough with my Irish passport, but want to return to the UK some day, and with Brexit still fairly up in the air, it seemed like a good idea to apply for a British passport and make it official.

The trouble is the only way to do that from Ireland is online. I've been going through the process but have the feeling I'll just be throwing my money away, because I don't have someone in a registered profession, not related to me and resident in the UK for the last two years or more, who can verify my identity. Nor can I get a hold of my mother's original birth cert to send them. Without these two things, am I right in saying my application would be denied and I won't be refunded the nearly €150 euro I would by that stage have paid towards it?

I can't understand why it's so hard for me to get a passport on my own terms. I'm as British as anyone else, aren't I? I can provide my own birth cert and every address I lived at in the UK. I can provide enough details about my mother to confirm I am who I say I am. The only reason I didn't apply years ago was the cost and the fact that we were all in the EU, so it seemed unnecessary. I'm really surprised it's turned out so hard to do. Am I even a British citizen anymore? Suddenly I don't feel like one.

Has anyone else gone through this process? Am I just wasting time and money? I'd really appreciate some insight

Can you not buy a copy of your mother's birth cert online ? We can here in Ireland through births deaths and marriages. Your gp can verify your application.

Worth asking on the HMPO live chat. I had a different issue (also lack of birth certificates- no father or paternal grandparents, no maternal grandfather - yes, I am British, with a British passport, British-born children, but all of these were required) and it was absolutely fine, the live chat were able to reassure me and the application went through quickly.

Fingers crossed for you.

you can request a copy of your mother's birth certificate.
it's a public document.
www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

sorry, can't help with the other question. but surely there must be a way?

You can buy a copy of any birth certificate online through the general register office.

In your situation I would call the passport office or email and ask for their help in regards to the verification.

I think without your mum's birth certificate you don't have the proof you're as British as the next person so I think YABU to think it should be easier. BUT you can apply for a copy of it, plus talk to HMPO for advice on the witness, but don't spend any money first as you won't get it back if you're rejected.

1. From the passport office website

“If you’re applying outside the UK
Your countersignatory must have a current British, Irish or other EU, US or Commonwealth passport.

If they have a US, Commonwealth, or non-British or non-Irish EU passport, you must include with your application a colour photocopy of the page with their photograph on it.

Your application will be processed faster if they have a British or Irish passport.”

1. You can order an official copy of your mothers birth certificate from the GRO on line.

www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications

Incidentally Irish citizens have all the rights of British citizens so a UK passport does not really bring any additional benefits.

They can live, work, study claim benefits etc in UK as if they were British. These rights are derived from bilateral UK Ireland agreements based on Ireland’s former relationship with UK ( as part of the UK until Independence and then as part of the Commonwealth until 1949). They have nothing to do with the EU and are unaffected by Brexit.

The trouble is the only way to do that from Ireland is online. I've been going through the process but have the feeling I'll just be throwing my money away, because I don't have someone in a registered profession, not related to me and resident in the UK for the last two years or more, who can verify my identity.

If you're abroad they don't have to be resident in the UK. I just asked a friend (here in the US, she's an admin assistant) to cosign mine. No problems at all.

Well this is confusing. My mum's birth cert is the thing that really proves I'm British. But anyone could buy a copy of it? And the copy is enough to get me a passport, when my own original birth cert isn't?

(Not doubting anyone, btw. It just seems really bizarre. Beauocracy at its finest)

Thanks for the advice on the live chat, all. It sounds like the best way to go, as I really do think the countersignatory could end up a sticking point. I don't know anyone in one of the registered professions who isn't related to me by birth or marriage. And haven't had my GP two years. (Nor do I see him regularly enough to feel sure he'd do it.)

I know the CTA holds for now, but I'm not Northern Irish and no-one really knows for sure how Brexit is going to go. Recent stories in the news are certainly enough to make me feel like I'd be better safe than sorry.

Thanks for all the advice

Where is your mum now? Can you get hold of her passport number? (Please don't say she's passed away, I'd feel terrible)

Can any family members in UK help with getting a signatory from someone they know? Or any of the other countries listed?

YABU

Because it should be difficult to get a passport because it proves your ID and gives you access to whole host of entitlements. Your last post contradicts your opening post in that respect🙄

The countersigning is a process to prove you are who you say you are. And really it shouldn’t be difficult to find someone who can do that. If it is, then so be it because you could be anyone trying to be you.

There are secondary processes to establish if you have a right to the passport which may include providing documentation.

Free movement and reciprocal rights between the UK and Ireland have nothing to do with the EU and brexit. They don’t apply to NI either. That’s the point.

Well this is confusing. My mum's birth cert is the thing that really proves I'm British. But anyone could buy a copy of it? And the copy is enough to get me a passport, when my own original birth cert isn't?

Your mother's birth certificate is there to validate your claim to British citizenship, not to validate who you are. That is done separately. They are actually linking up the various pieces of evidence you provide.

I'm currently applying for Maltese citizenship. I'm having to apply for all sorts of birth and marriage certificates, none of which are actually relevant, because those are the hoops they've decreed you have to jump through in their process.

When were you born? If you were born before 1st Jan 1983 then you dont need your parents' birth certificates. If you were born after that date then you need to show that a parent was a British citizen to pass citizenship on to you as it wasnt automatically given after that date

I don’t really get why you want a British passport? It’ll be a lot harder to travel and holiday with a British passport. But as you were born in England it should be straight forward? My wee man was born in England but to get him an Irish passport a friend of mine (who is a solicitor and not related to us) signed it and he didn’t have an Irish passport but low and behold my wee mans was accepted, so I don’t see why you aren’t able? Could you ask a local councillor?

If you were born before 1982 your mother cannot confer British citizenship anyway. We have this problem with DH, born in Ireland so Irish passport, lived in England since 6 months old, British mother, but FIL is not British, so DH can't have a British passport without going through all the citizenship process.

The issue with your dh is that he wasn't born in the UK whereas OP was

Incidentally Irish citizens have all the rights of British citizens so a UK passport does not really bring any additional benefits.

^^This

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/home-affairs/immigration/the-common-travel-area-and-irish-citizens-in-the-uk-after-brexit/

It's the combination of your birth cert and your mother's birth certificate that proves your claim to citizenship. You can order a certified copy online from the GRO.

But, I really wouldn't bother if I were you, as an Irish passport holder.

Your gp can verify your application.

This is incorrect. GPs are now specifically excluded from doing this for their patients.

OP, if you're in any doubt or difficulty then call the passport advice and they'll advise. They'll also do that far more reliably than mumsnet will.

If you were born before 1982 your mother cannot confer British citizenship anyway. We have this problem with DH, born in Ireland so Irish passport, lived in England since 6 months old, British mother, but FIL is not British, so DH can't have a British passport without going through all the citizenship process.

He doesn't have to go through the citizenship process - he just has to register as British.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/register-as-a-british-citizen-form-ukm

My SIL (born in the US before 1982 to a British mum and American dad) went through this process a few years ago.

A passport will not make your citizenship any more official. It's just a travel document and it's rare that anyone would need more than one. You're just wasting your time imo.

Lots of people seem to equate passports with citizenship, which is weird.

A passport will not make your citizenship any more official.

ask someone from the windrush generation who has been deported...

As pp has said if you have an Irish passport you don't need a British passport to live and have the same rights as a British citizen in Britain. I'm Irish living in the UK and I've not needed to get residency like other Europeans living here. This recprical agreement predates the EU and still stands. Save yourself €150.00