To request children not put together at secondary school?

[Flippetydip]

DS (age 11) is moving up to secondary school in September. He is going to the same school as various friends including one friend in particular. He has specifically asked me to ask school if he can be separated from this particular friend (let's call him Fred) as he, DS, feels that he is responsible for keeping Fred out of trouble at break times and that he, Fred, is a complete distraction to DS in class.

Both boys are relatively bright and have good potential but Fred is somewhat chaotic and hyperactive and has had issues with other children in the year at school. To make things more difficult I know Fred's mum out of school and she is delighted that Fred and DS are friends as she said that Fred goes to DS when he is having problems and finding life difficult as DS provides an excellent support for him.

So, WIBU to ask for them to be in separate classes at secondary school?

Definitely ask! When DS13 started secondary school Sept 17 there was space on the form we completed to ask if there was anyone you didn't want them with. When Dd started in Sept 19 the form had been updated so you could indicate if there were any children you didn't want them with but also to ask if they had people they would like to be with. I imagine in between they'd had problems.

It will depend on how school is organised. Year 7 is pretty much all taught in their form. They mix more as they go up the school.

Mama how can they stream forms by ability? Eg my DS is very strong in maths but not English, how would they set a child like this? At my DS school each subject is set by ability so they can teach the groups at their level This carnt possibly be happening if forms are set by ability and have all lessons together. It would be a real cause of concern for me.

Not at all. I have a similar situation brewing. There is a boy in ds's primary class that he is very good friends with. But I would like him to have the chance to spread his wings and make new friends too and I think having this friend in the same class would impede this.

At DS's school/future high school I believe they ask the kids for a couple of names of close friends and try to place them together so they have at least 1 person they know quite well with them, and I think the other boy will name my DS as his "best friend" but I don't want him too.

my2bundles we all sat a test before starting year 7 and that put us in a form who we had all year 7 and 8 lessons with. I don’t really know how they handled the issue of people who were much better at one subject than another, I can’t really think of any examples of that. The ones who were top of the class for one subject were for most of the others too, and so on.

I suppose if parents were concerned that their children would be disadvantaged by that approach then they didn’t put the school down as one of their choices.

His secondary school only sets for Maths in the first year, which I'm a bit about but I guess they must know it works.

@MsTSwift - that's exactly it. Fred is by no means horrible but just quite needy. I'm just feeling a bit bad for Fred as he doesn't have so many other friends and is very reliant on DS.

But thank you to all of you for the reassurance that they will both probably strike out on their own.

Mama that completely contradicts my DS and his peers. They have strong subjects and weaker subjects. My concern at your school is tne poor chold who could excel at a subject but is placed in a lower form due to how they are in the other subjects. All that is doing is setting a child up to fail in their stronger subject.

I would definitely ask and explain that the he is using your ds for emotional support with the blessing of his parents and maybe even his current schools. Then include the impact on your ds. I know of 2 people, who did this in different schools and both they were accommodating for an actual issue rather than x doesn’t like y.

I think it is up to the actual school, your primary may know how much information is being fed to the secondary one and how they group the classes.

DD had two girls from her old class in her form but none were actual friends. All her friends ended up in totally different forms, with 8 forms per year she hardly sees some of them. No idea if the primary had any input in this or if the secondary just don't care.

DD's secondary only streams English, PE and Maths in the beginning and then only via the two forms in the same house, in Y8 they mix two houses together. So there are still lots of other subjects they share the same classroom.

It wouldn't hurt to have a word with the school. Bear in mind that his mother may have already contacted them to request they are together as much as possible. Think of your ds's peace of mind and get in contact on his behalf.

DS was asked if there was anybody he didn’t want to be in a class with. He named 2 people from his school, and one from one of the other feeder schools who he knows from extracurricular activities. None of them are in his class. I don’t know if this is by coincidence or by design.

This makes me quite sad as I potentially have a Fred. He has ADHD and struggles to understand how to fit in. He has a lovely friend who sticks up for him when he struggles. They're 8.

I've never asked his friend or the mum to help my son, but it's about kindness isn't it, and looking after our more vulnerable peers.

I'm not saying your son should be sacrificing himself to support Fred. But how about teaching him how to set acceptable boundaries, so that Fred knows how to behave in turn.

Obviously this Fred may not have additional needs, but I think it's a possibility based on the way you describe him.

The Freds of this world just need an additional helping hand from time to time. If your son shows that it's ok to be friends with him, despite sometimes have to deal with whatever challenging behaviour comes, then others may follow.

Just another viewpoint. I do understand it's hard sometimes.

my2bundles I’m just recounting my experience, it was 15 years ago so I don’t think you need be concerned about any of my peers. However I don’t think it’s that unusual for children to be in the same quartile for most subjects when you’re considering a comprehensive intake with a wide range of abilities.

We had an induction meeting before starting and the teacher asked if there were people Dc wished to be with it not be with.

As far as I could see these requests were largely implemented.

@Pheasantplucker2 I think you're right, I think Fred does have additional needs - it has been suggested by the school but the parents are not willing to entertain the idea (I know this through Fred's mum rather than the school obviously!). I also think you're right about kindness, however, this is affecting the whole of DS's school life and has done for the last 4 years. I'm not sure it's right that that continues. DS is highly anxious as it is and I just need to make the transition to year 7 as straightforward as possible.

I am 20 so relatively recently left school. It wasn’t a massive secondary but we were put in classes with people of similar surnames so A-E F-M M-R S-Z for example, I was in S-Z category and we were put in all the same classes for the first year

my dd was in the same position last year
i wrote the school a letter saying
there has been issues between my daughter and X and i would appreciate it if they both got a fresh start in year 7
i also acknowledged that this may mean my dd would not then have anyone she knows in her form and that this was fine with us
the school responded within a day to confirm they'd take this into consideration and

1. she was not in the same form

but 2. they are in separate parts of the year now my experience is the school is keen to avoid situations / help if asked

Most schools are in half or quarter year bands for timetabling purposes. Primary and secondary schools do communicate with one another and children are often asked to name some children they would like to be in a form with. Teachers are also consulted about good and not so good matches.

There’s a massive amount of thought and planning that goes into putting children into forms, with a mix of ability, temperament and personality. There’s no harm in stating your view and there can be movement subsequently if the mix doesn’t work. It really is something that teachers agonise over. I’ve done it several times.

Absolutely and ask NOW. I left it too long and DD (y8) has had nothing but hell from the child I wish she'd been separated from

I did it with my DS years ago. There was one boy who had been bullying DS for years at junior school. When I found out they were going to the same secondary school I wrote to the head and requested that they were kept apart as far as possible.

The head wrote back and put them in different classes. It all worked out well in the end.

Ds2's best friend has autism and can also be a bit demanding and clingy. He and ds2 went to the same secondary and we asked for them to be in the same class but not in the same groups where the classes are mixed up (art/tech/PE) - I emailed to explain why. That degree of separation has worked well, their friendship is stronger than ever.

I think it would be worth a shot for sure ! Most Schools are keen for their forms to run smoothly ,and avoid problems for their pupils . They may hopefully not see much of each other anyway, but this way you can be sure you have done your bit in asking .

Its quite common for these sort of requests. I think often children are asked who they want to be with then parents can add who they don't want them with. It works with firms but might be harder in classes if they are academically similar

I think it's very important to be able to request that certain students be separated. Say if one child was terrified of another due to bullying etc. One was stalking another etc.

It's something they should take seriously imo. I'd contact the school about it now.

I remember moving schools and you could pick 3 friends (who were going there too) to write down on the form who you'd like to share a class with.

Our secondary school let us put in a request and said they would take it into consideration. My son was put in a separate class to the child I had requested him not to be with. I would at least ask if it's possible

DD's school asked the kids (when they visited them at the primary) if there was anyone they particularly wanted to be in the opposite year half to (thus ensuring they didn't meet in any lessons). As in most schools, not all requests were met - in my DD's case that was a good thing, as she'd badly fallen out with a child with whom she is now good friends again!

I'd put your request in writing, particularly if there's a chance that the other parents or the primary teachers will say that your DS is a good influence on Fred - you might need to make your case for him having a break!