That for all the talk of "leveling up" you are not going to stop many young people want to move to London?

[Rosehip10]

See hang wringing article from Simon Jenkins today:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/28/regions-london-northern-cities-young-people

How is making London take a hit economically going to help the UK at all? It will just mean less money for everything.

The way some people in Northern areas think, is that London is sending out gangs to kidnap graduates and young people and force them there. The pull of London for economic, social and cultural reasons is never going to end and many young people, understandable want that.

Levelling up is a wanky phrase some tosser has told them all to say.

It will be hard to stop the drain of people from the rest of the UK to London, but we should try, because it's damaging for our whole society to have so much concentration on a single city.

I follow what you're saying, and that article has a bit of an odd tone.

But I think there is a problem with the way London creates its own self-sustaining myths about culture.

My cousin grew up her whole life in the London suburbs, and I was talking to her and her parents recently, when they all said, totally straight-faced, that she would hate not to be in London because she could go shopping in the evening. They genuinely believed late night shopping was a London-only phenomenon. We broke the news gently but there was quite a bit of disbelief.

Likewise, when I look at people I went to university with who're in their mid-30s and still living in dodgy house-shares, it's become so normalised. They don't realise we don't all live like that. They talk about how wonderful London is in terms of lifestyle and culture, but they can't afford the culture and the lifestyle is starting to look a bit sad.

I think there's a great buzz, when you're in your 20s, because you're off to the bright lights and it's wonderful, and at that point most of your contemporaries probably are living in shitty house shares and don't have the money to go out. But then, if you never move away from London, you get stuck.

Where I think people actually start moving out is when they start families and suddenly a nice three-bed house in commuter country looks appealing. And I don't think that is really very much about culture, is it?

Not sure what the answer is, but I do think a lot of the appeal of London is hyped up, and relies on people not noticing it's a bit of an illusion.

illusion broke for us a few decades ago when everything we went there for, migrated up north.

When our position is clear in a decades times we will swap thus time counties belt for somewhere up forh where all our friends and acquaintances are.

Also this idea from some people that there is zero poverty in London and the South East

Not sure what the answer is, but I do think a lot of the appeal of London is hyped up, and relies on people not noticing it's a bit of an illusion.
^This
This is why a pokey terraced house becomes a "charming period artisan's cottage" in London, just so people can feel better about the shitty conditions they have to live in.

BTW I heard on the radio this week that Birmingham is more diverse than London.

I agree OP.

I feel a bit like that sometimes about education news, I always want to point out that not all working class kids want more skills/vocational education...some would quite like their schools to offer triple science and a choice of MFL for GCSEs like teens in leafier areas have access to.

@camomila agree, see colleges trying to push BTECs on to "less academic" young people.

Not sure what the answer is, but I do think a lot of the appeal of London is hyped up, and relies on people not noticing it's a bit of an illusion

Exactly, plus a lot of what people claim is the attraction of living in London is either not significantly different to any other large city or some subjective unquantifiable bollocks about 'buzz' and 'energy'.

Yes, there is 'more' and 'better' in London but doesn't that have to be viewed alongside the big problem for most people of paying huge rents and never being able to buy a house, even on above average salaries, where in other cities a couple on average incomes can usually afford to buy a family home such as a 3 bed semi, often a short distance from where they work, decent schools etc.

Anyway, probably time for one of my favourite Daily Mash articles:

www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/londoners-reveling-in-all-the-things-they-cant-afford-to-do-this-weekend-2015060598944

It has ever been thus that large cities dominate regions and countries. Plenty of people in the nw say Manchester sucks the life out of the smaller towns.

No idea why less academic is in “”. Why wouldn’t less academic kids have their needs catered for? There are numerous people who will derive no benefit from academic studies and a huge amount from more practical and vocational courses.

Since Blair’s commitment to 50% of the population being graduates we’ve become obsessed with sending our kids to university. As a result we have diluted the value of degrees and embedded a debt culture. We need people with practical skills and should be encouraging learning them. They’re becoming rarer, hence many plumbers earning more than the majority of graduates.

It has ever been thus that large cities dominate regions and countries
We shouldn't allow it to continue though, unless it's what we really want.

The Jenkins article was mean-spirited twattery! Yes, London's had lots of infrastructural investment and that needs to go to other areas of the country next. But Londoners have paid lots into Crossrail via council tax for example which gets conveniently forgotten. TFL doesn't get a block grant anymore so there's no central government subsidy.

Besides, London's doing an excellent job of alienating its own due to the insane cost of housing, leading to net migration out of the city. Schools are fine but nothing amazing when an average 3 bed semi in zone 2 is practically a million quid! London wages are higher than average, but housing has become even more unaffordable over the last decade.

This "on your bike" crap gets up my nose - as if it's just so easy to uproot your whole family, kids and kids friends, grown up friends, support networks, medical services, job networks. I mean WTF.

@alsohuman as colleges are often giving poor advice based basically on what courses will look best for their results stats. Young people may say they want to do a certain degree or career that would usually require a levels and a degree and colleges do the old "hey this extended btec in uniformed pubic services is worth 3 a levels" and then are strangely silent when said child can't get on degree or uni they want.

Lots will always want to go, but there are plenty who relocate only because they find the career options lacking at home. They'd stay away otherwise. It is in all of our interests for people to have as many opportunities as possible outside the most densely populated and water stressed region of the country. Particularly including those who actually want to live in London because they like it!

But I think there is a problem with the way London creates its own self-sustaining myths about culture

I dunno , I just don’t like other places in the UK as much . I just don’t . Happy to stay here frankly .

Not saying there's anything wrong with liking the place, @Thisis.

My issue is that often, when I hear people describe why they like London, I realise they don't know that what they like about it isn't particular to London. Not always. I know someone who has the most fantastic commute across central London and who is always saying how beautiful she finds it. Ok, fine: that's not something you will find elsewhere.

But I don't think the same holds true for my cousin thinking she can't leave London suburbs because she loves her late night shopping too much!

But Londoners have paid lots into Crossrail via council tax for example which gets conveniently forgotten. Possibly because for many of us outside London, Council Tax bands are actually higher than for similar sized houses in London.

Yes, and there's no getting round the fact that transport investment per head is highest in London.

Part of the reason for that must be that Londoners get free travel from their 60th birthday. Everywhere else in the UK it starts on the date of qualification for state pension.

I suppose as born and bred here I am overly attached ! But I agree that we need to support other cities to get to the same level
Of economic devt . It’s unfair as is

The Jenkins article was mean-spirited twattery!

Which bits below are ean-spirited twattery?

This week’s report by Lord Kerslake on the north-south divide presents the problem in graphic terms. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) shows Britain with the widest regional inequality of any advanced nation. London’s economy is growing at between two and four times the rate of the north. It is blessed with better health, better trains, better skills. The south-east has largely escaped austerity, its public spending rising £2bn in a decade. The north’s has fallen by £6bn. Fixing this gap will require action “on a level with Germany post-unification”, the report says, when trillions were spent over decades on the former east.

Which bits below are ean-spirited twattery?

I thought that was an interesting interpretation too.

I agree, OP.

There is much madness around this. 🤷‍♀️

I've told this story many times:

I did phone-banking for Labour and came across a group of voters - all middle-aged to retirement age; all male - who kept telling me the government needed to introduce a forced relocations scheme.

For the young.

Young people would be forced to go and live and work in areas of economic downturn, outside London. For about 4 years. They could do all sorts of stuff, from teaching to filling pot-holes and building flood defences. They could earn some sort of basic wage and have rent paid.

Clearly, they'd all been to some meeting or other, where this had been discussed as a serious idea.

I was shocked.

So, you know, when people start in on this London versus Everywhere else thing, I just hear more 'is versus them' stuff.

It's inherently simplistic and divisive - and it only ever helps authoritarians.

It's inherently simplistic and divisive - and it only ever helps authoritarians.
No it isn't.
Whilst I don't agree with forcible relocation, that isn't what this report is (or the article linked to) advocating - at all.
There is no good reason for so much of everything to be so insanely focused on a single city in this country.
It should stop, for the good of everyone. It isn't sustainable for one thing.