AIBU to hate Universal credit, pip and the mental stress they cause people

[Mistlewoeandwhine]

Why does no one care about this? It’s so awful. We are a rich country and we can afford to give people their benefits. It’s a tiny amount of the tax spent. We spend more on nukes. I feel sick thinking about all the people suffering in pain and anxiety. It’s so cruel.
www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-claimant-took-his-own-life-after-paramedic-ignored-his-pain-and-dwp-cut-his-benefits/
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/universal-credit-depressed-mental-health-benefits-dwp-a9363776.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1582847446

A family member went through a mental breakdown triggered by the PIP assessment process.

How much do you think several months of psychiatric hospital admission, plus many hours of police officers' and paramedics time being taken up, costs? A fucking lot more than their DLA/PIP ever did I'm pretty damn sure!

My dd has just been moved from DLA to PIP because she is 16, she has ASD, severe learning disability, sleep disorder and is non verbal, she is effectively a toddler in a teenagers body. I filled in the 50 page booklet and submitted a further 35 pages of evidence from various health professionals. Last week we had her face to face interview where the same questions were asked again by the "healthcare professional" and the only response we had from him was "oh she's so weird" repeatedly.
I don't know how I held back the tears, he then said if you don't get the award please feel free to appeal.
I get that checks have to be made to prevent fraud but to humiliate and dehumanise vulnerable people is fucking obscene.

Rosie39forever they made your dd have a face to face assessment with the level of her disabilities? 😱😱😱. And then calling her weird??? My God, how did you keep your cool? 😡😡😡
My dd is now 26, has SLD, a life threatening form of cluster epilepsy and is severely autistic although she does have very limited speech - similar to that of a 2/3 yr old - and they have never done or requested a face to face with her. However, sometimes I wish they would if it could reduce the reams of paperwork I seem to be constantly completing on her behalf as her Appointee.

As Jackparlane mentioned earlier, it is easier writing up a PHD thesis than completing these endless forms which take absolutely hours.

What really concerns me is where people don't have such good education and/or as great command of English could easily be completely ripped off just by not quite completing the form to their VERY exacting standards. 😡
Also, with UC and making people wait a minimum of 5 WEEKS before being paid anything. Hello, HTF are people expected to feed themselves, pay rent, travel to the jobcentre etc. with no effing money???

Makes me incandescent with rage. 😡😡😡

Have never had a face to face with DLA just endless form filling but talking to other parents in the same situation it seems to be standard practice when changing to PIP. The assessor constantly tried to have a conversation with my non verbal dd which was quite amusing, it was as if he was trying to see if I'd been lying about her disability even though he had written proof from several medical sources.
I'm no shrinking violet and educated to degree level but could totally see how someone with mental health problems or lack of education could easily be overwhelmed.

“I don't blame the government - they need to weed out false claimants but, IME, Capita aren't interested in the truth or fairness.”

Wtf!

Who do you think CHOSE to employ capita and similar AND who do you think sets their targets and regulations??

The govt absolutely are to blame!

Have you even seen/heard of the times certain MPs have LAUGHED and CHEERED upon learning of the difficulties it’s causing?

They are ideological opposed to the welfare state full stop and always have been.

False claims are a TINY amount of the money paid out, there’s far more UNclaimed than falsely claimed and there’s even larger amounts of tax UNPAID by large conglomerates, global companies and even celebrities.

It’s been proven by several organisations it’s not actually saving any money as claimed, that is not the real reason for the changes.

It’s a cull of the poor, sick and otherwise disadvantaged.

People are LITERALLY dying because of these policies AND they’re very deliberately covering that up.

I believe I have seen a couple articles this week about dwp workers shredding evidence relating to claimants who’ve committed suicide!

I’ve 2 degrees inc one in healthcare and I’ve worked for the civil service in a different area and learnt the hard way not to even attempt the process without support from people with expertise in the area.

I’m housebound, physically disabled and seriously mentally ill.

Last year I had to move to pip from dla. I was very fortunate to have good support from my gp and a welfare rights advisor but it still took a good month to complete the form, gather and submit the evidence. And I don’t just mean time span I mean several hours a day in that time writing and checking etc. I was very lucky and was awarded higher rate for both elements.

I’m actually a bit worried about the Scots govt taking it over having been so lucky. Not because I think them less supportive but my experience over many years of claiming due to disability means I’m always wary of change.

To answer the pp “what would you do better?”

I think it’s pretty bloody obvious what would be better!

1 Assessments are necessary yes, but they should be performed by compassionate, appropriately qualified healthcare professionals. Eg one dla assessment I had was “performed” by a fucking podiatrist! I’ve nothing wrong with my feet! And it was clear they’d zero understanding of any of my conditions!

Frankly at the moment as an ex hcp myself, I’m pretty certain that the people who are ex hcps working for these...organisations...are ones who were at risk of losing their professional registration or just plain incompetent anyway, as I’m pretty sure most would have better pay & conditions continuing to work for nhs and certainly in the private sector.

2 the LYING needs to stop!

3 if a claimant has a lifelong condition that isn’t treatable and isn’t going to improve (eg I have friends with cerebral palsy, cystic fibrosis, sight loss etc) then at most reassess 5 yearly. Not just for their sake but because it’s a waste of money and resources “reassessing” someone with a condition that isn’t going to improve!

4 assessments need to be in accessible places or at the claimants home if necessary. There’s been a shockingly high number of incidents where eg wheelchair users have been told to attend assessments at places they can’t even get to the buildings entry door! This happened to my friend with cerebral palsy, they sent her to a building with 16 stone steps before you were even on the same level as the building and no other access! And there’s no way of phoning them to let them know as they only give out call centre numbers that are murder to get through to.

5 the forms need to be much clearer and account for all kinds of chronic illness and disability, not skewed towards physical as they are now. The pip forms are very slightly better than the dla ones were but they're still very biased that way.

I agree a UBI would be a much better idea.

As a Scot I think if we go independent that may be something that’s introduced here.

I’d say claimant’s own medical professionals should be the ones making the decisions not people with limited understanding of medical conditions and certainly not people coming from an organisation with an ethos of seeing claimants as liars, parasites and layabouts. That would be a start.

But people will still vote Tory because they still believe the utter bollocks spun by the media and that the entire country has legions of multi-generational, huge families who have never worked but had money in rakes.

People with disabilities don't actually want "free money" and they certainly don't want go through the humiliation of claiming benefits but they are left with no choice but to jump through the hoops, many people with disabilities are or have been tax payers.
I would give anything for my dd to not be in a situation where she needs disability benefits, I'd love for her to be in mainstream school into make up and boys (or girls) instead of pepper pig.
The amount of disability benefit we receive for her pales into insignificance compared to how much her needs cost.

Totally agree Rosie39 except it's Teletubbies with our dd on bad days and the Simpsons on good days. 😂

I bet - like us - you know the DVD's word for word.

They need to use a medical professional that knows of the disability you have, that can understand the problems that are faced by having the disability.

Perhaps they could use people who have actually been diagnosed with the disabilities or the carers them selfs who are more turned in to weed out false applications and people trying to pull a fast one at medical assessments.

The humiliation of taking to someone you don't know about soiling and wetting yourself when you can't physically move quick enough to do anything about it and then if you get a nil award because you may of said that 2 days out of 7 you do make it to the bathroom.

You then have to go through the pain and humiliation all over again in front of larger group of strangers to appeal.

Lifetime awards for permanent disabilities with perhaps a yearly check to see if anything has changed or not, a simple yes or no form would do as something disabilities do get worse or better as a person ages.

Changing from DLA to PIP for a child could be a lot easier with a simple has anything changed form since your DC turned a year older overnight, instead of making a 16 year old attend the assessments and talking to a stranger about the difficulties they face changing sanitary protection or how they can't bathe themselves.

Sorry that turned into a major rant

Before the government contracted out to private companies assessments were done by either your own doctor or a doctor or healthcare professional specialising in the area of your disability, when we first claimed DLA dd was assessed by a paediatric consultant specialising in ASD and cognitive disabilities which was great because she totally understood everything we said and had the knowledge to decipher dds medical and hospital reports, it made it so much easier.
I have no idea of the qualifications of the person from capita who did our face to face, I did ask but he would only say he was a health care professional which could mean anything.
The whole system is designed to deter people from claiming, it stinks but you won't read about that In the hate mail and sun, you'll just read about the one person who managed to scam a free car.

Yanbu, I have MS I was awarded indefinite lifetime DLA, I now have to be assessed annually for PIP.
It is stressful, upsetting and humiliating, doing this every year.

My condition is going to get worse not improve, this is fact.

A friend has MS also, she was awarded PIP for 5 years, why? why was that decision made.

I had my tribunal this week it is the most stressful thing I have had to endure in a long time it has been hanging over me for months . My pip was reinstated but it is dehumanising to go through. Yanbu

My friend was told (by the Tribunal Service) that ATOS have even had a dental nurse working as an assessor. They have nurses, occupational therapists and paramedics assessing conditions they have no knowledge or experience of.

We just went through a tribunal with my daughter. She had lifelong dla and went to having 0 points on the pip assessment. We went to tribunal and she got enhanced pip with the dwp conceding on most points as we all sat down to start the tribunal.

It's awful. YANBU

I always go from the highest rate of everything to scoring 0 points, losing everything and then winning it back a year later at tribunal. This has happened 6 times now.

Good grief, that is absurd @aLilNonnyMouse. You'd think they'd have a note on your records that says "Approve this one, she always wins on appeal".

With the success rate for appeals running at around 80%, they're making a massive number of wrong decisions, and every one of them results in months of stress and misery.

Even the tribunals are shit. I was at one with a client yesterday, they rushed through stuff because they were running late, and were really abrupt with the client, who was in tears throughout. And they couldn't spare the time to give her the decision, but said they'd send it in writing. She's now sitting at home in bits desperate for the letter to come.

I completely empathise with anyone that has been through this, yet, can I ask to those who think OTs, nurses, and Physiotherapists are not knowledgeable enough to assess, why is this? All those professions are educated with regards to disabilities and pathologies, even if the PIP assessments are corrupt.

So you think a physiotherapist would be knowledgeable about Autism and the impact that severe learning disability has on a person ??? This is exactly where the problem lies FFS. Likewise how would a podiatrist or paramedic be able to assess someone with MS, you are unbelievably ignorant hitandmiss
Imagine going into hospital to give birth and a dentist turns up to deliver your baby....well they are a medical professional!!

“I don't blame the government - they need to weed out false claimants"

I DO blame this government, and the previous Tory governments over the last 10 years who have done this

I can remember back to the 1960s up to about 2010 - so under both Labour and Tory governments -
all that period when there were checks, but at a sensible level and not so cruel.
Before the formerly right of centre Tory party was taken over by the ruthless hard right

This system is designed by ruthless sociopaths to make the most vulnerable fuck off and die,
so the better off can have tax cuts

and to pay for the billions the government spaffs on its cockups

All this cruelty to the 98% of claimants, just to catch the 2% of workshy frauds
It is totally out of proportion

It's like immediately jailing everyone for life if any random accuses them of any crime
then making each one prove they are innocent

• all because a minority will be crimininals

Then repeat for everyone every couple of years

@BigChocFrenzy 👏👏👏

I've heard that it costs more in costs for tribunals than it saves by rejecting claimants.
Can anyone show me if that's true or not?

Yanbu