To think scrapping uni fees for first generation applicants is wide open to fraud and ambiguity

[bamboozelle]

An influential think tank has recommended that universities should scrap the first year of fees for applicants whose parents didn't go to uni (see [[BBC News - Uni admissions could scrap use of predicted grades
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-51645826 BBC article]]).

Surely this is wide open to fraud? It would completely rely on people being honest about their parents' backgrounds because there is no systematic, scalable way to prove the absence of a university education.

Even if people don't deliberately lie there are all kinds of ways to bend the truth depending on how the question is worded. e.g. If your parents went to a polytechnic, HE college etc, do you answer yes or no? If you had a non-uni-educated biological parent for half your life and a uni-educated step parent for the other half, do you answer yes or no? What if your parent went to uni but dropped out before they got their degree? I'm sure there are dozens of other ambiguous scenarios too.

I know universities and some sixth forms (e.g. this one) already use the first generation criteria to prioritise applicants, but this proposal takes things to a new level. Large sums of money are involved so the temptations to lie, or favourably interpret the truth, are much higher.

And of course everyone else will end up paying higher fees as a result.

A lot of parents with degrees have relatively low paid jobs in teaching, nursing, social care etc. It's ridiculous that they should end up paying more than parents with a higher income but no degree.

In the US need based aid is determined solely by the parent's income and assets. You have to complete a financial colonoscopy very detailed set of financial disclosure forms to get it.

Doesn't sound very fair. What about lone parents who did go to uni but earn a shit wage, because of childcare commitments, made worse by the fact that there's only one income.

I don't think university should be free. I also don't think it should cost 9k a year

Uni should be "free" because graduates pay tax, usually way over the value of the tuition fees they received, and because the country needs an educated workforce.

If 50% is too great a proportion to have in universities, bring back polys and turn them over to degree apprenticeships. I actually think degree apprenticeships are a really good idea and would support my son if he wanted to do one instead of incurring tuition and maintenance debt doing a straight degree.

As for the idea of giving those whose parents didn't go to university a free year of uni - no. Apart from anything else, lots of people who didn't go to uni are very well off and their kids don't need any more help than the offspring of those who did.

It won't happen for all the reason you say.

DH and I didn't go to university but my mother did, does that make our DC first generation.

I didn't "go to uni" but I do have a degree, earned the hard way at the same time as a FT job. Where would that sit?

Plus who would know any of this?

I am ancient. I got a grant, and no one had even thought of fees. In those days, it was believed that a university education would mean you could make a greater contribution to society/the workplace and would almost always repay any 'debt' through that and/or greater taxes. The highest level of education in my family before me was my mum's school leavers certificate, and the O'grade maths my dad sat at night school.

I think especially now that we are ex-EU we need a truly exceptional workforce and academia if we are to hold our own. Uni needs to be free to ensure that the brightest and best are not put off by fear of life long debt.

Perhaps if the government were to focus on getting big business to pay taxes instead, we wouldn't need to be having this discussion.

I have to say this whole idea smacks of the government sounding a bonkers half idea out before they kick it to the kerb.

I almost feel like it makes me a non-person. No one in my family (mum,dad, me, sibling, my grandparents, aunts, nephews) has been to university. DH has been to university so if my son goes he is the first generation of my family to go to university.

@Grasspigeons That's a really good point I hadn't thought of. This seems to be a policy suggestion that potentially offends everyone.