Flexible working just benefits middle class women who have the luxury to consider 'work life balance' - AIBU?

[Waferbiscuit]

We had a flexible working policy at my current and last workplace. In both I managed a large (20+) team of mostly women across various grades. Flexible working - normally reduced hours or term time hours, compressed hours and wfh - was available but my general observation has been that these initiatives mostly benefit the middle class.

Reduced hours has primarily been taken by people on higher grades who can afford to work part time - virtually all the grade 7 and 8 women in my team now work part time. Those in grades 3 and 4 can't afford to reduce hours and so are still in full time often providing the continuity in the office and sometimes picking up the work of those who aren't in. A few at lower grades came back from mat leave after 6 months because they couldn't afford the drop in pay. Wfh until recently was only given to senior staff so again was exclusive and that caused a situation where senior staff weren't present and more junior staff were required to be around.

Flexible working is starting to create a chasm between the haves and have nots - those who like to go one about the importance of their work life balance in the company of women who have no choice but to work full time and can't even contemplate work life balance.

Aibu to suggest we need to rethink flexible working so it benefits all?

What would be your solution?

I would like to see more men working flexibly.

Flexible working is great - when I was a single mum with a hound child it meant I didn’t panic if I was called into school, or if dd was ill - I just made up the time on a day when she went to her dads that night from school, helped me no end

I think you’re right. Middle class women tend to have partners in well paid jobs, so they do have a choice rather than having to work FT to pay the bills. And I’ve seen situations at work where lower paid grades have to step up just because the more senior colleagues is WFH or has gone to do school pick up.

I don’t think the solution is to remove flexible working benefits, agree that more men need to work more flexibly but short of paying lower grades more I don’t know what the solution is.

Has to be a perk for all though, not just senior level, otherwise it will be a cause of resentment

Flexible working should mean less need to work part time I would have thought? In this case it’s not fair because it’s not implemented fairly (in terms of working from home).

It won’t work for everyone but unless you have a proposal that creates more opportunity for flexible working (rather than reducing those who have it at the moment) then we just need to continuously improve what we have.

Some in grades 7-8 won't be able to reduce hours and some in grades 3-4 will.

The answer to economic inequality is not to take away one little triumph eeked out by a subset of an economically oppressed group (women).

A better answer would be to better fund and subsidise child care so that all women had the option to work and were not spending so much of their income on care. Another answer would be to better support women with small children, not in a realistic position to sustain employment, who are not supported by the father. Neither of those two options gains much political traction however because it's always "a woman's fault, a woman's responsibility and a woman's choice she should learn to live with".

Flexible hours have been a god-send to me and my disabled child. They have allowed me to keep working full time where I otherwise would have had to stop to be his carer.

So is getting to L7 or L8 the point at which someone becomes middle class or are only middle class women progressing to L7 or L8?

What are the barriers to those currently at L3 and L4 to getting to L7 or L8?

Where are L5 and L6 in all of this?

Surely you would expect seniority to have additional perks and higher salary, and therefore can afford to work less if they choose? This isn't a class issue, it's just capitalism.

Expecting lower grades to pick up the slack for higher grade PT workers is a problem though. If someone moves to PT the business needs to recruit someone else PT to job share so the FTE stays the same.

DS has large detached 4 bed 3 bath home and works compressed outs to have Fridays off and still has amorthage. I have 2 bed ex LA house and I work 4 days and no mortgage. Sometimes it just depends on your lifestyle choices so yes I think it is fair. If you want to work less live within your means.

Flexible working is fantastic for those who can afford the loss/uncertainty of income and the sacrifice of upward career progression. As in, it suits me very well (until I need sick leave or maternity pay, neither of which can I receive)... but if I were a lone parent, I would ideally need the security of a fixed-hours contract, even if stacking shelves after midnight. So yes, I do consider my job a middle class privilege.

I think you are confusing flexible working with part time work.

Yes part time can be easier for women with ft partners so they have 1 1/2 wages coming in.

I have flexible working but work long hours. We have a core of 10-4 but can start from 7-10 and finish between 4-7. We can choose a lunch from 30 mins-2 hours.

WFH is also available.

This is true flexible working but o do a lot more work than someone on a fixed 9-5!

How many men choose to work flexibly? Flexible working can help with childcare costs and keep people in work but too often it is just a way for women to try to juggle childcare and a job.

We need a real shift in mindset amongst employers before flexible working is anything more than a thing some women do.

When I was in primary school 40 years ago my DM worked 7:30 - 3:30 and my DF 9:30-5:30 (Civil Service). So DF took us to school and DM picked us up. Have we really moved on?

Ermm hello, I disagree!

I have benefited from flexible working - I switched from full time to part-time hours, initially working 10am - 2pm Monday to Friday. But then I was able to negotiate working compressed hours of two days per week, usually Tuesday and Wednesday but willing to work different days subject to business needs. This was 20 years ago, I was an administrative officer (junior administration role in the civil service), I definitely do not consider myself to be middle class.

In the organisation where I currently work the workforce is predominantly women that have childcare responsibilities. The company operates numerous flexible working shift patterns to support all of the different childcare needs. Again the team is made up of junior roles within the wider organisation and I can confidently report at least 60% of the team would consider themselves to be working class. I also work compressed hours in this role - weekends only on a rolling weekly rota so different start and end times each week.

I think you need to look beyond your organisation to adjust your assumptions. Flexible working:
a- isn't a benefit just for the middle class workers and b- the flexible working concept is working for a lot of people.

Well... I risked waiting until I was 34 to have a baby so we could save first, and chose to live in a cheap area so that we could afford to live on 1.5 salaries. However I did only get statutory mat pay and am not earning much - a lot less than public sector gets for part time. I'm not sure class has anything to do with it - not sure what class I am! Everyone's situation is different.

Parental leave is another example. I’ve only worked with one woman who could afford to take unpaid leave, because her husband was on a very high wage. It caused a lot of resentment when she took her unpaid leave during school summer holidays, as that meant the rest of us were unable to take annual leave (only 2 people allowed off at any one time) as she was off for a straight 6 weeks.

Also, my husband works flexibly - 4 long days and a half so he can look after DS one afternoon a week. It's not always women.

I think it might be your industry specifically - is this public sector, you mention pay grades that’s all?

In the private sector I find it completely the opposite way round for the most parts, women in senior roles working full time or 4 day weeks but long days whilst the more junior roles or lower paid roles like you say have a lot of part time employees or job shares.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude nope!!

I also think that both the mother and the father working reduced hours (say 4 days a week each) so the child isn't in childcare as much in the child's early years would be beneficial. So (assuming the Mon-Fri model) the father works Mon-Thurs, the mother works Tues-Fri, which gives more flexibility for school events, sickness, etc. It's easier to continue to do a high level job working 4 days, than one of the parents possibly taking a backward step to work 3.

YANBU. I'm one of the more senior in my large team of predominantly women and as such am trusted to WFH 2 or 3 days a week.

I wouldn't change it because it gives me a brilliant W/L balance but yes I can see it's unfair. Except, I did those roles in my 20s and did my time, it's only those who don't progress who don't reap the rewards.

In senior roles in the private sector a lot of the time you just aren’t ‘allowed’ to work part time. I’ve taken a back step so I can work part time.

Flexible working doesnt just mean reducing your hours. It means being able to go in later or earlier to suit your own circumstances and finish earlier when you need to get off for appointments and such like. It also means being able to use flexi hours to book time off to see your childs school play. It's not about being part time. If also can mean working from home.

I forgot to mention the flexible working patterns apply to full-time and part-time employees.

If I come in late due to valid reasons - I make up my hours by starting and ending my shift later, I'm not penalised. Also for the parents with sick children my colleagues are not penalised by having to use annual leave or deduct a days pay. They are able to to take the day off and bank the hours, as hours owed and pay them back over the next few months.

How many men choose to work flexibly?

Lots, in our organisation, including senior managers.

Flexible working can benefit everyone (the employer included) if it's managed properly. If I wasn't able to work flexibly my wife wouldn't be able to work at all (or at least would have to massively reduce hours or change jobs), not would we be able to live where we are now.

The benefit to the employer is being able to retain and recruit from a wider variety of people, if hours/location of work are not the barrier they might otherwise be.