to ask whether you know the origin of the word Tory (without googling)

[shudup]

Interesting fact I learned today!

It's bizarrely apt when you look at it lol. I didn't know personally.

And I'll tell you how the conversation came up later.

I think it means cattle or sheep thief but I haven’t googled so not absolutely sure.

Not that specific CruCru but you're on the right track. Now you can put yourself out of your misery and google.

I think it’s something to do with crime - stealing maybe?

Doesn’t it mean ‘traitor’. It’s something to do with Ireland I think? It’s a long time since I found out. I did NOT google.

It's the language that it originated from that's most interesting!

Yes, last two are correct.

I thought it was abbreviated from conservative

Yes I thought it was a silly nickname for conservatives / conservatory / Tory

As a non-native English speaker I first learned it to mean someone who supported Britain during the US war of independence, after that it meant anyone who supported the UK during colonialistic acts, like partition.

Obviously with the rugby day that's in it, it's a discussion on Facebook, that 'craic' is actually an English word (Or Scots Ulster).

So I'm getting edumacated on all sorts of adoptions of words this morning!

On Facebook - the home of education lol.

The word Tory derives from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe; modern Irish tóraí; modern Scottish Gaelic Tòraidh: outlaw, robber or brigand, from the Irish word tóir, meaning "pursuit", since outlaws were "pursued men".[5][6] The term was initially applied in Ireland to the isolated bands of guerrillas resisting Oliver Cromwell's nine-month 1649–1650 campaign in Ireland, who were allied with Royalists through treaty with the Parliament of Confederate Ireland, signed at Kilkenny in January 1649;[7] and later to dispossessed Catholics in Ulster following the Restoration.[8] It was also used to refer to a Rapparee and later applied to Confederates or Cavaliers in arms.[9]

So it's of Irish derivation believe it or not!

I think I asked once why they were called Tories and was told 'because they're arseholes' and that was as far as that conversation went.

Clearly, there's a lot of consternation on the Irish facebook page that the Brits might have invented the craic haha.

If you go on joe.ie on facebook, the 'discussion' is there.

It was also used to refer to a Rapparee and later applied to Confederates or Cavaliers in arms.

No idea what that means or who either of those groups were, but the poster above whose second language is English could be correct if Cavaliers in arms were in America.

Don't know to be honest!

During the late 1670's there was a campaign by certain politicians to exclude Charles II's brother, James Duke of York from inheriting the throne because he was a Catholic. This party called their opponents Tories as an insult, comparing them to Catholic Irish outlaws. In response, the Tories named the Exclusionists 'Whigs', deriving from 'Whiggamore' which originally meant 'cattle driver' in Scotland, but was later applied to anti-Catholic Scottish Presbyterians.
Both parties seemed quite proud of the names and they survived in common use through the many changes in political allegiances during the 18th & early 19th centuries, which eventually resulted in the emergence of the Conservative and Liberal Parties.

I thought it was short for conservatory - as in, conservatives represented the rich and elite so word play on conservative/conservatory. Feel stupid now!

Used to insult Irish Catholics? Robbing Tories?

It from irish for thief isnt it?

oh you've said already

I watched this tother day you might be interested

Does it mean outlaw?

There's a vague something at the back of my mind from a crossword clue a while ago.

Oh I'm too late, you've already given the answer.

I always thought it meant “thief” and came from the Irish language.