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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a mental health charity shouldn't put this on website?

61 replies

flashbac · 21/02/2020 22:57

I don't think a mental health charity should be advertising an event with the word "terf" used within an image. For those not in the know, the word "terf" is commonly used as a slur against women, especially those that seek to protect women's rights and/or raise concerns about safeguarding.
This mental health charity has invited an activist and used the following image to advertise their attendance:
Aibu to be a bit peeved/concerned?

To think a mental health charity shouldn't put this on website?
OP posts:
wellbehavedwomen · 22/02/2020 17:33

No idea, but anyone who can look at this and then still insist that it's not a slur is a misogynist. We're way past limited intelligence at that point, and into thinking this shit is okay.

SallyArmley · 22/02/2020 17:52

The image reminds me of years ago when signs outside premises said:
"No Blacks , no Dogs. no Irish"
And it was perfectly acceptable for psychiatrists to apply electric shocks to gay men to " cure" them.

The only difference is the descriptor on the sign has changed in 2020.
And probably who should be having the electric shock treatment.

I would say that Touchstone appears very " Exclusionary" in its £5 million charitable behaviour

A mental health charity telling you via an image on a poster to think a certain way or you are not welcome. No Paupers Behaving Badly here.

About time the Charity Commission got a grip.

Greenglassteacup · 22/02/2020 18:07

This view is sweeping through mental health services, staff can’t speak up for fear of losing their jobs

SallyArmley · 22/02/2020 18:21

staff can’t speak up for fear of losing their jobs
No lessons learned from the BBC

Whistleblowers are supposed to be protected - but I've never known anyone who did, to carry on on work unscathed.

TheDarkPassenger · 22/02/2020 18:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

wellbehavedwomen · 22/02/2020 18:31

Then you've literally just said a slur is okay by you if you also dislike the slurred group. Congratulations: the defence of bigots through the ages.

SallyArmley · 22/02/2020 18:51

I don't like some people with certain views.
I'd never prevent them accessing mental health services because of their beliefs.
Anyone should be able to access health services regardless of who they"like" or don't "like".
Even people who think like you TheDarkPassenger
MH professionals are trained to not let their own views/beliefs get in the way of providing mental health support to those who are asking for help.
That's what my problem with this.

SmileEachDay · 22/02/2020 19:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

wellbehavedwomen · 22/02/2020 19:25

Transwomen, at that. Never met a feminist who had any issue with transmen accessing anything they chose, in terms of women's spaces, provision and sports. Because the trans part isn't the problem.

TheDarkPassenger · 22/02/2020 23:48

My comment got deleted? Genuinely? Because I don’t like hate? Wow. I’d heard people say mumsnet was anti trans but wow. I’m off!

helpneedaquicknamechange · 23/02/2020 00:06

Quick name change

I used to know the CEO (professionally-not personally and not linked to this charity). I am sure that if you get in touch she will respond to your viewpoints.

ALongHardWinter · 23/02/2020 00:18

It's not just the word 'terf' on the advert that is offensive, it's the whole sentence it's used within,i.e. 'Cher H8s Terfs'. If someone printed 'Cher H8s Gays',or Cher H8s Transpeople',there'd be uproar!
And wellbehavedwomen. Well said. I totally agree with everything you have stated here.

wellbehavedwomen · 23/02/2020 00:22

@TheDarkPassenger no, your comment was not deleted because you don't like hate, because you expressed no such feelings. To the contrary, you stated that you do like hate, just as long as you agree with the target.

I didn't report it, because I think you showed who you are very clearly. But I can see why someone else did.

SallyArmley · 23/02/2020 00:46

I didn't report it either.
But I'm not surprised it was deleted, it was a hateful statement, no point bullshitting that it was otherwise ADarkPassenger.

SallyArmley · 23/02/2020 00:48

It's not just the word 'terf' on the advert that is offensive, it's the whole sentence it's used within,i.e. 'Cher H8s Terfs'. If someone printed 'Cher H8s Gays',or Cher H8s Transpeople',there'd be uproar!

Yep. Spot on.

FeeFee832 · 23/02/2020 00:51

What's the P word????!!!!! Blush

knowmenclature · 23/02/2020 00:57

How shit.

An organisation claiming to be support for mental health needs supporting hate speech. Hmm

Not exactly great for mental health is it

MorganKitten · 23/02/2020 01:11

@ALongHardWinter well Cher wouldn’t hate the gay communityor trans people as her son Chaz is a transmale.

Anyway, most rational feminists understand that it’s actually trans women who are the highest murder rate, especially the women of colour, and fight to protect our brothers and sisters in the LGBTQAI community.

Saying that I do hope this thread is deleted, the use of the word terf is apparently extremely offensive here and topics asking terfs not to hate people get deleted, this one should too, otherwise it’s hypocritical.

Redshoeblueshoe · 23/02/2020 01:23

Really Morgan
2 women a week are murdered in the UK by their partners or X partners
How many transwomen have been murdered in the UK ?

knowmenclature · 23/02/2020 01:24

. Oooh, I know, I know, is it absolutely none?

SallyArmley · 23/02/2020 01:50

well Cher wouldn’t hate the gay communityor trans people as her son Chaz is a transmale
lolz
It's not the real Cher in that Touchstone cartoon - you do realise Morgan. ?
It's a pretend cartoon Cher, with a hate placard, on a mental health charity leaflet.

SallyArmley · 23/02/2020 02:18

Ah! Just lost me post...apols if it turns up.

The Cher picture is actually Luna Morgan according to the name above the face, now I look again with my specs on.

Is that you holding up the H8 placard MorganKitten?
Are you having a wee panic about being recognised?

wellbehavedwomen · 23/02/2020 02:39

@MorganKitten "most rational feminists understand that it’s actually trans women who are the highest murder rate."

What rational people, feminists or otherwise, do is fact check. They don't blindly believe whatever they are told. That way, irrationality lies. So let's have a little look, shall we?

Transrespect Versus Transphobia Worldwide produce the statistics for Trans Day Of Remembrance. I assume, therefore, that you accept their data and do not regard it as being biased.

They say that 9 trans people were killed in the UK between 2008 and 2017. So, averaging one a year. The trans community is conservatively estimated at 200,000 people. So the risk of being murdered for a trans person is around 1 in 200,000.

The total UK murder rate is a little over 1 murder to every 100,000 people. That means trans people have half the average murder risk.

Transrespect v Transphobia say that 28 American trans people were murdered in 2017/2018.

If the US trans population is 1.4 million, which is the presently accepted figure, that means 2 trans people are killed for every 100,000 trans people in the population.

The statistic across the whole population in the same year was 5.4 people killed for every 100,000 people. That would mean trans people in the US are more than twice as safe as the average.

If you read the Trans Day Of Remembrance lists - which I have done - you will realise the vast majority are sex workers in south and central America. Their deaths are hideous and appalling, as all murders are, but women sex workers in the region are also killed in horrifyingly large numbers and nobody's interested in remembering them.

Trans people face bigotry. I think that's obvious. But ignoring the reality of that (employment discrimination, difficulties obtaining shared housing spaces, street harassment, objectification) to create rather more dramatic, and very easily disproven narratives undermines that by undermining credibility, and misdirecting attention from where the problems truly lie. This helps nobody. Least of all the trans community. And nor does propagating a narrative that means trans people live in fear of attack and murder, when the reality is that their murder risk is greatly reduced.

It's similar to the ridiculously unscholarly and exaggerated suicide "stats", which GIDS at Tavistock, from their contact with thousands of young people with gender identity issues, state is not correct. They say that suicide is extraordinarily rare, and no more common than amongst any other cohort of young people the same age. Yet people keep repeating a stat from a self-chosen survey, with no controls possible, far less probability weighting, where the designers of that study had no way even of knowing if those completing it did so more than once. A statistic taken from 26 young people in total cohort. Yet people keep citing that, and ignoring GIDS, with their ongoing relationships with many thousands of patients. GIDS have further stated that they deplore those highly questionable suicide stats being used as propaganda, as they harm the resilience and peace of mind of the very young people they are seeking to support. So why do people keep doing it? Especially when, as with suicide risk, there is a proven link between telling teenagers they're at increased risk of suicide, and their attempting it.

Dramatic false claims may harm the people you are claiming concern for. Again: fact checking matters.

flashbac · 23/02/2020 08:57

Leeds Resistors and Filia have tweeted about this but Touchstone are apparently blocking them.

OP posts:
Greenglassteacup · 23/02/2020 09:02

Yes, resist and you will be silenced

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