To expect the UK's 1 million unemployed to get a job as a Care Worker?

[SquireOfGreenway]

The number of people unemployed in the UK is just over 1 million - the lowest it's been since the early 1970s. However, we should still surely expect that figure to be even lower.

From next year, it may be much harder for care-providing organisations to recruit European migrants to fill their Care Worker vacancies.

Surely, it is reasonable to expect any UK resident who is unemployed, claiming job-seekers allowance and so far unable to get a job to be required to get a job as a Care Worker? If they don't then they should be sanctioned and lose their state benefits.

I am not just talking about Care Work. I am talking about all minimum-wage and minimum-wage plus jobs that we have been relying on European migrants to fill.

Why not? There will always be maybe a few 100,000s unemployed, as people move from one job to another, etc. But why should there be a million unemployed people if there is a shortage of workers in any industry that does not require any great level of pre-entry qualifications?

SoCrimeaRiver Wed 19-Feb-20 09:31:56
"The OP does, kind of, have a point. 12 months from now, we won't get getting care workers coming in from the EU, so who will be doing this work? We either need to be training more care workers in the country, which will probably be from the pool of the unemployed because no-one's going to leave jobs for something as badly paid, and with such unsocial hours, as care work, or we accept that we don't have the capacity to provide such care to the elderly, and presumably leave them to manage alone. There does need to be a conversation about where the adult social care needs are going to be met.

My MIL was in a care home almost exclusively staffed by Spanish nursing staff. It was a rural area and there just wasn't the staffing locally to staff a reasonably sized care home."

Or how about a third option that care jobs are offered with reasonable pay and regular guaranteed hours including full time. The then might get decent applicants.

I'm sure many people (including stay at home mums that don't appear on unemployment figures at all as they are supported by their partners) would welcome a post that was for fixed hours that suited them for example they may be able to do several nights or mornings or evening with a supportive partner helping with childcare and school or nursery runs or grandparent help.

What many people (parents and people who are carers in their private life/people that care about their work life balance) can't do is random rotas such as Mon morning, Mon night, Tues Evening, Wednesday morning, Friday night and so it goes on with no regular pattern to allow life planning or childcare.

Also someone that needs to contribute to the home or even lives alone and needs to manage everything alone is not going to leave a post with guaranteed hours or even benefits on which they can manage for zero hours or low hours that will not pay enough to manage.

If we want people to take the jobs improve not only the wages but the terms and conditions. Why does a carer always have to be available 24/7? It makes no sense when for example some people don't want to work weekends and others (working around a partner or a student for example) want weekends only. Neither will be accommodated. The whole culture needs to change before care can be seen as a decent job.

A previous poster referred to how much more money would be needed if carers were to be paid 36K like a qualified nurse. I am not suggesting a carer should be paid as a qualified nurse but 22-25K full time would be a good start. It is disheartening to me when I know carers are paid around 19K (with the work they do and the unsociable hours) and I see a job advertised with the same employer described as printing and sending out questionnaires and collating responses - 24K. Caring is undervalued.

Hook, line, sinker and copy of Angling Times.

agricultural work is zero hours transitory & low paid (isn't there different rules about min pay for agricultural workers?) & it is very hard work
Caring is & should be vocational &s killed- & not by enforced people who don't have any interest & are unsuitable & have no desire to do it sweeping streets -bit medieval aren't you? You are aware that councils are cutting back on employing people for this kind of thing?
As pp state many of the people deemed unemployed are disabled or older people who have been made redundant, people who may have addiction problems, people who have criminal records etc etc etc basically many have obstacles or issues which makes them unable to work in many of the areas you suggest or they are trying to get work in their own field & skill set (ie temporary situation & its better if people work that suits their skill set don't you think?) (nb please excuse sweeping generalization of the issues facing unemployed
people I am trying to make a point)

All good points Winter2020

Alternatively, care workers should be paid a lot more, recognising the skills and aptitudes needed for the job, seeking better staff retention and redressing the systemic sex-discrimination that has kept wages low.

Then the right people will get and stay in those jobs, whether already resident in the UK or not.

The person that posted the thread might just be trying to goad people but I think (as a carer) it is actually quite a heartening thread with the vast majority of responses supportive of carers.

I don't think anyone is actually getting very angry because the idea is pretty ridiculous and nearly everyone is against it.

Caring is undervalued.

If anyone would like to know just how undervalued caring is they only need to look at Carers' Allowance.

Carers' Allowance is paid to people who care for someone they know (e.g., a family member). The person being cared for must be in receipt of specific benefits such as higher rate PIP or high care rate DLA. The person providing the care must be providing a minimum of 35hrs per week care and, if also employed, must not be earning over £123 per week.

Carers' Allowance is £66.15 per week.

£66.15 for 35hrs is the equivalent of £1.89 per hour. However most family carers are providing care 24/7 which equates to 39p an hour.

You can only claim Carers' Allowance once, no matter how many people you care for. In my own situation I have two disabled children and I also provide some care to one of DH's elderly relatives. So 39p an hour for providing 24/7 social care to two people and 24/7 on call care to a third.

Family carers save the government £132 billion in care costs each year. That is enough to fund a second NHS.

Great, so I’m supposed to entrust the care of my severely disabled son to any old tit who has been forced into the job for a measly 73 quid a week, doesn’t want to do it, has no empathy or understanding, has no reason to give a stuff about his welfare or well-being am I? Not to mention the fact that there would be a humongous staff turnover so nobody would really get to know him or his needs, which would be impossible for him to cope with.

We should be making care work more highly paid, valued, respected and regulated. Your suggestion is quite frankly ignorant and insulting to the millions of elderly and disabled people out there.

Well said Winter2020. I would add that putting care out to private agencies made conditions of employment worse. By the very nature of it the agencies make a profit whilst the conditions of employment for carers deteriorate. I was shocked to find that my mother's home carers were not paid for the time driving between houses and received no petrol or mileage allowance. They were given insufficient time to get from A to B. Social workers and NHS nurses get a mileage allowance. People on low wages are being asked to run a car so overall they are probably bellow minimum wage. When care services were run directly by LAs conditions were better but funding has been cut now.

No my vulnerable son deserves better than that.

I'm an unpaid carer and done as I do it ( properly) it is more demanding than my previous teaching role.

The OP doesn't have a point. We are going to need to think about how we will fill caring roles, and this is likely going to require training suitable individuals who already have the right to work in the UK. But that is not what she said. She said they should have to take the jobs or be sanctioned.

The reality is that if we want roles like care and other unpopular minimum wage roles filled by British citizens, it's going to take a more sophisticated approach than waah, sanctions. There will need to be training. For agricultural roles, we might need to look at provision of accommodation, and allowing those in SH to move away temporarily for work without risking their tenancies. While we do have around a million unemployed, that doesn't mean they're necessarily the people to fill the gaps. We might be better removing barriers to those who are currently underemployed, who might be willing to work nights if there were childcare, to those who would have to balance work around other commitments or who've been out of the workplace for a while. Its going to require actual thought and planning.

And at the end of all this, it still might be a circle that cant be squared. In which case we're just going to have to provide visas for people to do low paid work, regardless of how much Priti Patel might want to pander to the more hard of thinking amongst her base.

Good post Hoik

This thread is making me smile. Particularly the idea that low paid workers from the EU are intrinsically motivated by factors other than money for coming here and taking care jobs. Yes its such a privilege for them.

OP does have a point though - Priti Patel wants everyone to be mega qualified and to earn a lot of monies to be allowed in.

The thousands of lower paid jobs that many Europeans have filled in this country are about to be empty and there will be no excuse for anyone to be unemployed. The NHS is struggling to recruit in all areas at the moment - nurses, porters, doctors - Brexit is having a massive effect already.

That's a brilliant point about SAHPs / carers and working hours Winter2020. Those perfect 9.30-3pm jobs are pretty elusive and, for a proportion of SAHPs, evening and some weekend shifts are the easiest times to get out of the house for work, as the other parent is present.

I used to study and work at home at those times. I considered things like being a theatre usher, a PT weekend library assistant, things like that, that would be evening and weekend (but not the whole weekend) shifts.

You should set up an agency, retstructure the industry and become lauded as a great economic disruptor!

The fact that vacancies are going to exist doesn't mean it's as simple as withdraw benefits from people if they don't fill them.

Havent rtft but you do NOT want people being carers who do not care.
Having worked in that area myself there is a huge difference between the level of care of those who care and lose who are there for the money.

The problem with care work is that it's unsustainable, we have increasing numbers of people needing care but this isn't work that many people actively want to do - I would rather do almost any menial work to avoid being a carer.
In the minds of most people it's a shitty job with really shitty wages but there are loads of elderly in care homes and we all want our grannies to be cared for by someone nice and kind who loves looking after the elderly.
Surely the only solution is to force people into doing the work... but that's not a solution is it

OP i take it you would aply the same rules to the childcare sector ? Are you happy to have just anyone off the street looking after your children ?

Does that extend to everyone who is economically inactive? The retired the long-term sick how do you expect those people to fulfil sometimes difficult roles

Oh fuck off

Winter2020. Can I first of all applaud you and your colleagues for doing a fantastic job.

My now adult dd lives in a 24 hour care supported living complex and has a fantastic team taking care of her. (She has 12 hours per day 1-1 and 12 hours per week 2-1 for when she goes out of the centre.). None of her staff are from the EU - there is just one fantastic Italian lady on another team who is married to an English man and has lived in the U.K. for 20 plus years.

My dd can become very aggressive and violent without warning but even at her best she has ongoing obsessions which would drive anyone without the patience of Job insane. God knows how her care team talk her round at times but they seem to have a solution for everything and are extremely supportive to us as very involved parents.

I honestly don't understand why care staff are not on the same/similar pay scale as nursing staff. They certainly deserve it IMO.

Oh, and I’m currently an almost full time carer to my disabled twins - I’m technically not unemployed as I work 20 hours a month plus whatever extra I can in DH and I’s company.

The nearest suitable school is an hour’s round trip away, and the local authority won’t provide transport because they claim that a closer school can meet their needs. Currently fighting this. It would essentially mean I can never get a regular job.

There are thousands of disabled children with EHCPs but no school places, and thousands more who are out of school with no EHCP yet in place. What are these parents supposed to do?

(That’s to the OP for the avoidance of doubt)