Opinions please, if it would be strange for me to hang out with friends fiance

[MBalloch]

So, some information first to paint the picture...
I met my friends fiance 9 years ago, my friend invited him along to a night out and since then he just sort of became one of the 'gang' and started coming out every time we were all out for dinner/drinks etc. We all went to a party one night and my friend, who I knew from school but not that well, as we didn't talk at school, was there, they hit it off instantly and became a couple and have been going out now for 8 years. I now consider her to be one of my best friends and she was even a bridesmaid at my wedding. However, since becoming a couple, my friends fiance slowly stopped coming out, she would only just come herself, which never bothered me, but I've become incredibly concerned about him recently.

My friend told me that he openly told her that he was thinking about suicide one night as he felt really stressed but didn't obviously go through with it as he loved her too much. Ever since hearing that, I cant stop thinking about him and keep seeing little things as cries of help and dont know what to do. We all had a couples night a few weeks ago and we were all so excited at the prospect of seeing my friends fiance as we haven't seen him since my wedding (nearly two years ago) but she turned up alone and said he was on his way, 20 minutes later he texted to say he wasn't coming and asked her to apologise to everyone, she then called him to see if he was okay and he was crying on the phone apologising. My friend said that she couldn't force him to come out and that he has been busy at work recently. Maybe I am speaking out of turn but I really didn't think that was normal, obviously he had some sort of anxiety about coming out and I keep thinking about him. She also met me for lunch last week and was asking if I had life insurance, a will etc. I asked her why she was asking and she said Craig (for the sake of mumsnet) has written a will to ensure she is taken care of should anything happen... they are both 27 and I am worried that something may happen.

I've been speaking to my husband about my concerns, he then said he would ask Craig if he wanted to come round and play xbox one night, just they two and to my surprise, he did! I popped out that evening so they could chat etc. and when I returned, my husband told me that Craig was saying that he has been depressed and feeling very stressed about everything (moving house, getting married this year etc.). Anyway, we all meet up as couples like every 6 months - he never comes as she says he 'cant be bothered', it was their turn to host the Christmas movie night in December (a silly tradition we have) but they didn't because she said he 'couldn't be bothered', anytime we chat about seeing him she always jokes that he has become a hermit and cant be bothered going out. She has often told me that she sits alone most nights as he just plays his computer games. However, she never takes him anywhere, whenever she talks about going to the movies or dinner with him she always says, oh yeah craig can take me or I'll suggest that to craig he can treat me to that, I know she isnt meaning this as a joke because I have heard her say this to him and she told me that her family like him at times because he treats her (strange thing I thought to say!!). They also go on holiday with his family every year, never alone, again, I find that strange too and she told me last week that his mum goes to their house to pack for him, she was taken aback when I said I find that strange and I would not allow it. His mum and dad are heavily involved in their finances too, go to the bank with them, sitting in mortgage meetings etc. again, she was taken aback when I said that I would find that helpful but slightly overpowering.

As he was my friend before she was, I was thinking, would it look bad to her, if we asked him out to dinner or lunch without her? We want to just talk to him and check that he is okay, I feel that my friend doesnt really take him seriously and he is crying out for help and no one is really listening or takes him seriously. I would text him but when I have in the past, she texts back on his behalf, I would call him but they are always together and I cant just pop up to their house as she would be there. He also doesnt use social media so I cant really reach out to just him without her seeing. that's why I thought speaking to her and just saying that we were thinking of asking Craig for a catch up, just him.

My question is, what else can I do? Is it unreasonable for me to want to see him without her? My husband sees no issue in this and thinks that the night at our house without her done him some good.

Its so complicated because she has become a close friend and my contact is all with her now not him. I dont want he to think it is strange but I also cannot ignore this anymore. Sorry for the long message, with what has happened to Caroline Flack, I have been thinking about him more than ever and I'm terrified that he could do something. Given her reaction when I have said something is strange etc. I dont want to say to her that I think he is depressed as she may take it the wrong way and think of it as a criticism.

Help please!

He was your friend before he was her fiance, I wouldn't blink twice about you hanging out with a friend. If he'll agree to come out at all that is.

Perhaps if he won't meet with you then you can encourage his friendship with your DP instead. Seeing as he went along for that plan.

Reading this makes me think she’s possibly controlling; she answers his phone, allows the parents control. Poor man sounds like he can hardly breathe with everyone else taking all his control away. Could your DH ask him for dinner/pint and you go along?

YANBU to be concerned, if you’ve tried raising it with your female friend and she’s not really giving anything away and you’re still concerned then I would totally reach out to him again.
Can your DH do as he did last time and invite him under the pretence of an Xbox night and then when he’s there and relaxed a bit you could approach him, either to ask him to meet you for a coffee just the two of you or to talk directly to him then.
It’s a tricky one because as much as we should reAch our to people, there’s only so much you can do if they don’t want to speak, don’t want to meet up etc. I don’t blame you for trying though, I would do the same

@JKScot4 I was thinking that. I dont want to look nasty to my friend and not invite her but my husband suggested this, ask him round pretend I've got plans, so she doesnt come then when he is there say my plans are cancelled...

I think rather than tell your friend you're inviting Craig only, do what you suggest and get your DH to invite him round again and you just be there/say your plans got cancelled. When he met your DH last time did he say if he was on any medications for his depression? It sounds as though sitting indoors on computer games all the time isn't doing him any good and he could do with getting outside more. It also seems as though he's gone from being with controlling parents to a controlling fiancee.

TBH I think you are judging your 'friend' a bit harshly. You don't know what kind of support she is giving him, and the fact that she suggests that her fiance takes her out or that they go on holiday with his family are not red flags. It's not her fault he plays computer games alone every night, and he certainly isn't depressed because she never takes him anywhere. She has been reaching out for you in a really stressful situation (partner with severe depression), and it sounds like you are blaming her for his depression.

I don't think you should invite Craig out on his own. You haven't seen him in two years, he has never confided in you, he has declined all invitations to events that you will be at, and you only know about his issues from your friend (who has confided in you as she needs support of her own) and your husband. He might find it rather overwhelming to have someone he barely knows and who he has never chosen to confide in trying to have a heart to heart with him. You'd also be breaking your friend's confidence if you just told him all she has told you.

On the other hand, your husband has already had a nice evening with him and the fiance has confided in him. Why not encourage your husband to build on the relationship, and continue to invite the friend and husband out as a couple. And try to extend a bit more generosity to your friend herself.

What is your plan exactly? You say you want to check if he is ok. But you already know he is depressed so he is not ok. Having a little chat with you won't suddenly cure him so I'm not sure what your goal is here? Do you want to support him? In what way? Is that the way to do it?

Can your dh not invite and then you just go along ? That’s way it’s not so awkward as not inviting your friend would be .
You could just say you decided at the last minute to go as you hadn’t seen him in so long .
In circumstances like these I wouldn’t be afraid of bending the truth

@oldfashionedtastingtea yeah that crossed my mind too .

@mauvaisereputation I'm not saying his depression will cure if she started taking him out. I was getting at his parents and her to some extend control him. I think it would be nice for him to actually be taken out once and not because she wants treated. I love my friend dearly but I can't listen to another conversation of her calling him a hermit and just laughing it off. Also, If I were to meet him, I wouldn't bring up things that my friend has told me, god no!! I would simply just chat to him, without her there, if he tells me things, fine, if he doesnt then that's up to him. My husband was the one who said that he could tell craig needed a night away from his partner. She has become friends with all of his friends to the point that he doesnt have any friends now - I dont think that is healthy. My husband and I have mutual friends and I see his friends as mine too. But, he goes out with his friends and I can go out with mine. Craig doesnt have that, all of his friends have become hers, she doesnt have any of her 'own' friends.

I dont want to go out without her as I can see why it might look bad but we were all his friends first and I think he needs a night with just friends. Given that his friends are all really good friends with his partner, I think I will ask my husband to make more effort, he does like Craig and has lots in common with him but he is rubbish at making plans with people! thank you everyone for your help :)
I was chatting to my other friend and we are thinking about a possible 'guys' night, with her partner too and while they do that we can have a 'girls' night! that way she isnt left out etc.

He doesnt sound himself and with moving house, a wedding and my friend pushing to start a family this year, I worry that it may tip him!

I'd get your DH to plan another gaming evening at yours. You can be at home and take some time out to have a chat with him.

Baby steps though. And don't assume you can do anything much in the short term sadly. The will to escape from a controlling situation (if that's what is going on) has to come from within.

It could be that his inlaws over-involvement in his life has contributed badly to his mental state, but it could be that his mental state has necessitated the involvement of his inlaws to support his wife. Tangled web.

I think you sound more controlling than any of them. Not your business, keep your nose out.

@TARSCOUT your comment has made me laugh!

… I'm not quite sure what to say back, I'm slightly puzzled that you've said that... thanks for your (pointless) input.

@mballoch
Tarscout is well known for nasty/inappropriate comments. I think you are right to be concerned for your friend, I’d rather reach out than ignore until it’s too late.

OP - you sound nice. You've noticed a change in behaviour from a friend and you're worried that he isn't getting the support he needs from the few people that he sees. Trying to arrange a time to see him seems entirely appropriate in this situation. Not necessarily because you can 'fix' him or offer more than a listening ear, but because the more people he has keeping lines of communication open, the easier it will be for him to ask for help. He may not need help, he may need it and not ask, he may be hoping for someone to talk to, but all you can really do is re-establish contact and take it from there.

There is a lot of implicit criticism of her in your op, as if she's at fault here or to blame in some way.
Some of his behaviour does sound concerning...making a will for instance, at least in the context that you've given. But he's her fiance. Your first action should be a frank discussion with her about your concerns.

There is a lot of implicit criticism of her in your op,

I saw this too. Depression isn't caused by one adults behaviour around another because then the first adult would just walk away. Depression is something within the person. Their dynamic could be unhealthy, or just normal and healthy but she can't cure him from depression. I do worry about how you view this.

Having said that, it could be nice to have some relaxed friends evenings. I like the gaming night idea. In my experience a lot of men tend to be really good at relaxing together without having a difficult conversation but do have the unspoken "I'm there for you" understanding. It will nit cure him but having a relaxing evening with other people can feel nice sometimes.

Perhaps his parents are so involved because they are aware of his depression and do things to support him. I can imagine if it's really bad, to the point he talks about suicide, it might be difficult for his partner tk deal with alone. Im sure most parents would help out if they could in that situation.
Your friend can't sit at home with him forever, as much as she can't make him go out with everyone. Perhaps he came to your house because there wouldn't be so many people around and he felt more comfortable with that.
What did he talk to your dh with when he came round?
I thinn if you ask him round together as a couple, he may become suspicious that you're checking up on him. I would go with a pps suggestion of your dh asking him round and you just being there.

I can see slight criticism in my post also, I really dont mean to be like that. I guess, I know my friend very well and she doesnt say a bad/negative word about anything or anyone. So having serious conversations with her can be difficult as she usually tells you to look on the brighter side of life and that tomorrow will be better and she totally avoids the difficult topic you are discussing. We usually ask after *Craig and she will always joke and say things like 'oh he is just himself, a lazy arse' or 'still a hermit' … when I have asked her if he is really okay she usually just says yes then again makes a joke of him being lazy. when he texted to say he wasn't coming to the couples night, I was the one who told her to call him and make sure he was okay, then she told us that she was crying on the phone and she put it down to 'work' - I dont mean to be mean towards her but she usually avoids difficult things and looks to Craig or his family to make important decisions.

Its tough, but I know if there is something wrong, and if I need advice, I dont ask her, I ask other friends cause I want an actual opinion and not want it sugar coated etc. So that's why I am wary to keep asking her if he is okay again as she just makes a joke and then always talks about how she wants a baby this year with him and that she keeps telling him to get a move on, but they are moving house and getting married. With how he is, I am surprised that she wants to have a baby asap. I know its none of my business but they are close friends of mine and since hearing the suicide comment, and wee snippets of information here and there, I am concerned.

Thanks for all your comments, I am feeling a bit better about all of this and will ask DH to meet up with him or have a games night.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion, its the same with inviting him around to our house too. well apart from the night with my DH which surprised me, I think he did really need some guy time. I didn't think about that with his parents, perhaps they do know something and that's why they are so involved. It's not my business really why parents are involved, I always get told snippets of information in passing comments and hearing the whole suicide thing makes me think I am over analysing everything now.

It's nice that you are cncered for him though. It is easy for people to be over looked or not taken seriously when depressed. Maybe your dh could make it a regular thing.

I’m going to go against the grain here.

I think he’s in an emotionally abusive relationship.

So, he goes out with you all regularly, then he meets this woman and suddenly he’s going out less and less, she answers his phone, replies to his messages, tells you all that he’s depressed and talking of suicide but you don’t hear any of this from him

There are so many flags waving here it’s like bunting. If this was someone posting about their female friend who suddenly never goes out once she met a bloke and how said bloke and how said bloke answers her phone and replies to her texts people would be telling the OP to suggest to her friend to run for the hills.

yes, I would get your DH to invite him round again. And then I would have a gentle chat with him about whether things are ok in his relationship.

he confided in your DH that he’s stressed about getting married etc, it’s possible that that’s because he knows he will then be tied to his abuser.

@alternative
I said this right at the start, if it was a female friend everyone would be screaming abuse.
I think OP has the gut feeling something is amiss and she’s right to act rather than ignore.
Glad someone else sees it.

Depressed people withdraw from the world so I wouldn't necessarily put that down to him being in an abusive relationship though I guess that's a possibility.

OP...it sounds like a good idea for your DH to be offering some 'guy time' with your friend.

I get what you're saying about fiancee brushing off your questions. Maybe try the approach of just telling her what your concerns are, rather than asking questions? Best to try to avoid criticism of her if you can or chances are she just won't listen to you.
Good luck with it and I hope he's ok.