AIBU to think that holocaust deniers

[NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1]

don't really believe that the holocaust didn't happen and that they are in fact, just being arseholes.

How on earth can anyone honestly stand up and say "the holocaust didn't happen, it was a conspiracy"?

So, if you think holocaust deniers know full well the holocaust happened and are just being arseholes then click YANBU. But if you think that they really believe it didn't happen click YABU.

I think some people truly believe whatever they want to believe if it supports their ideology. These people are antisemitic and believe the holocaust is a conspiracy, they'll surround themselves with an echo chamber of similar views and only watch youtube videos and read articles that support that. Any articles or historic evidence to the contrary they consider proof of the conspiracy.

Same with alot of conspiracies including antivaxx and flat earth this one just happens to be one of the racist ones. I don't think you are being unreasonable but I do genuinely think these people believe what they say.

@NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1

YANBU. Of COURSE the Holocaust happened! As a pp said above. These are the flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers, and climate-change deniers, and are often (although not always) bigoted and racist too.

It's hilarious to suggest the Holocaust never happened. It defies belief that anyone could deny it!

I don't think it's hilarious at all to deny the Holocaust, but I do think it's tragic and extremely ignorant.
Hilarious and holocaust aren't really two words that go together.

The only ones I have met are also subscribers to other conspiracy theories: illuminati/9/11 conspiracy/Big Pharm trying to kill us with vaccines etc.

In my experience they are thick people who have been taught or have read just enough to feed on material fed to them by paranoia merchants, but lack the critical faculties to properly weigh an argument someone persuaded them once that the media is engaged in a vast conspiracy to cover up “the truth” and they think it makes them look bright. So they go looking for examples of bonkers suggestions which they can use to validate this.

They often seem to gravitate towards the hard left as well: perhaps because the left has some justifiable experience of bias etc. It pains me to say it but you don’t usually get Tory conspiracy theorists.

While there are those who outright deny the Holocaust happened at all, a much more common form of denial is trying to claim the accepted death toll was exaggerated, or that Hitler wasn't aware of the Holocaust, or other forms of "revisionism". In fact this is how they suck people in, by planting seeds of doubt over the facts of the Holocaust. This makes a Holocaust doubter believe that mainstream history isn't to be trusted, and if you can convince someone that nothing you read in text books or history books is trustworthy, you can convince them of more or less anything. In fact this is also how the flat earth movement gains new followers, by planting seeds of doubt over the trustworthiness of mainstream science.

user127819 yes and there are also a lot of people who are not quite out there enough to be holocaust deniers or flat earthers but whose stock in trade is that the "mainstream media" are not to be trusted, "science is a western, imperialist construct" and so forth.

They see most accepted norms of thought across all fields of study as constructs imposed by western imperialists in order to marginalise alternative views.

The logical corollary of this is that any far out bollocks they can pluck off some internet conspiracy site must be true because its not imposed upon us by the "mainstream media".

Sadly in the past I spent far too much of my time trying to talk sense into people like this so I recognise the syndrome.

Dh father was one of the first to enter one of the camps
Yes it happened.

Sorry I meant at the end of the war, to liberate the camp

Years and years ago when I was in my 20s I met what appeared to be a nice guy. We were having dinner and I don't know how but suddenly he was explaining to me that the holocaust never happened. He said none of it was true. It had just been fabricated over the years. I had never heard of holocaust deniers and thought he was weird. I said what about concentration camps sure we can see them and know they weren't made up and he rolled his eyes in frustration and said they were work camps. The nazis were only trying to help.
I was stunned and told my friend the next day who told me to Google holocaust deniers. I was even more shocked when I realised there was more than one of him!
There wasn't a second date 🙏

My great grandfather was a prisoner in a camp. Anyone who denies it happened are cunts.

Some people will believe anything, some people genuinely believe that Australia doesn’t exist.

I went to a talk a few year ago my Renee Salt who survived the holocaust as a young teen, she does a lot of public speaking about the Holocaust. She also made a very good one off TV show with her grandson about her awful experience.

I think it's pretty tasteless to put it to the MN vote, to be perfectly honest.

I assume you're watching the David Baddiel programme?? Thankfully I don't understand deniers at all. I think they are anti semitic, I think some are so overcome with guilt that it's easier to deny it, and I just don't get it.

I have a family member who is a Holocaust denier and I have cut all ties with him because 1) I am married to a Jew and 2) even if I weren’t it would still be so fucking ignorant and offensive. His line is that it’s propaganda created by the Jews to curry support and sympathy in the world. Honestly.

Imagine being related to someone so fucking awful. I don’t tell anyone IRL as it’s so shameful. This is someone who had a first class education and went to one of the top universities in the world to study science. Waste of education and waste of money.

I find that some people are so desperate to be edgy and cool they would go along any outrageous theories. Holocaust deniers, Australia doesn't exist etc.

I believe in some theories (certainly not this one) but most are too yeah man, dont be a sheep it's what they want you to think

Well, they are right. It WAS a conspiracy .... to kill and steal from MILLIONS of people who were not all Jewish either. My family, as freemasons and mischlinge, fought that war and can assure you that it happened. I do think that there is very legitimate inquiry as to the extent of the organization/collaboration and what the end goals of all that trauma were though (eg were Jews deported to found Israel regardless of whether they wanted to go or not etc? It's still very much pertinent now.

YANBU I cannot vote as MN has broken my ability to see polls with their brilliant IT skills

Holocaust deniers will not be swayed by historical fact or evidence. They are not open to opinions different to their own. Ignorance is ingrained.

I’ve just watched a program on it with David Baddiel.

Deniers have their own agenda.

I am starting to think we have reached maximum capacity as far as the number of humans that this planet can support.

So holocaust denial, anti vaxx, flat earthers, climate change denial are part of the mechanisim which will kill off a bunch of humans. A built in self destruct. Unfortunately these fucking dummies are going to take lots of smarter people with them. Which from a numbers point of view doesn't matter. But it pisses me right off.

There are a lot of delusional people out there.

I clicked YABU because people believe all sorts of shit that goes against evidence based science. Flat feathers, anti vaxxers etc who will put their own children at harm rather than listen to reasoned arguments. It's so hard to argue with these people, if you show them a study or evidence its fabricated or 'that's what THEY want you to believe' or you just get smirked at and called a sheeple.

I think social media and how the internet works now, by reinforcing your beliefs by showing news and stories that reflect your side of he argument rather than a balanced view, has made it easier for people to believe conspiracy theories.

They often seem to gravitate towards the hard left as well: perhaps because the left has some justifiable experience of bias etc. It pains me to say it but you don’t usually get Tory conspiracy theorists.

What a bizarre concept. IME holocaust deniers are invariably very right wing. It's how they validate themselves and their extremely bigoted views.

There is no difference between "hard" left and hard right. They are the same in wanting control.

@judycoolibar yes I found that post a bit bizarre about the "far left", holocaust deniers tend to come from neo nazi end of the spectrum, pretty far right racist nutcases. As I said originally, people believe what they want to believe though...