Are we going backwards in evolution?

[pawsies]

When I think back to human history we have made some incredible feats. From the discovery of various things to inventions and architecture.
It seems like the modern day and future will be not as impressive as we rely so much on technology and the practical skills are being lost in future generations. How many of us Google 'how to..' or look up YouTube for how to do something?
Whereas the ancient Greeks and other ancestors managed to invent or build things without resorting to technological means.
Technology is of course an incredible feat in itself but are we relying on it too much to teach ourselves and our family things that a community would do together in the past? Or is it just a new form of community?
Then we have social media which is creating a whole new generation of people obsessing over appearance and what people think of them. Very few practical skills being learnt there.

It just seems like we are going backwards compared to the previous feats that our society has accomplished.

What do you think?

I do think the OP has a point.

I did have a very physical and very physically skilled job.

I stopped years ago but it does mean that I am better at picking up new physical skills than people who have sat behind a desk all day.

We are becoming less physically skilled. The ability to think with your hands for want of a better term, is being lost.

I think it's accepted that IQ levels are dropping in general around the world but scientists can't define exactly why.

It would be nice to think that with increased leisure time and access to information everyone could develop some great and significant skill, but we don't actually need everyone to do that as long as enough people do.

I expect that back when Archimedes was leaping from a bath shouting Eureka there were plenty whose only skill was fetching more hot water.

It does feel like I encounter a lot of people who are almost too stupid to breath, but then I watch Flat Earth Videos on Youtube for fun so that's probably not a fair sampling of humanity.

Evolution isn't always positive. Look at how many species have become extinct when they couldn't 'evolve' as fast as other species to environmental changes.

Surely evolution is just about physical changes caused by natural selection? Nothing to do with skills.

And what are skills but manifestations of our physical abilities - which are inherently due to our physical bodies.

I don't think you can separate the two.

The word ‘evolution’ might not have been the most appropriate but I do think that this is an interesting question. We are losing practical skills, undoubtedly. I have seen news stories in the last few years about how we are short on surgeons, because people aren’t taught sewing any more. Manual dexterity isn’t as good as it was. There have been complaints that no one wants to learn practical skills any more because we’re all chasing academic jobs - possibly because the cost of living in high and not much else pays probably.

Then you do have the point that skill needs change as pp have said - none of us really need to know stone knapping any more as an example. Whether the skills needed in future will entirely replace those of the past in an era when computing and AI are taking more jobs than they create I don’t know. I don’t share pp’s confidence and optimism on that score.

What is the difference between learning something from youtube and from your dad? I used to ask dad. Now I google.

In 1900 most people didnt know how to invent television or cars. And nowadays most of us dont know how to invent the internet or cat scans.

OP, what about the future do you think will be less impressive because people use Google now?

I guess that we tend to interfere with natural selection these days by helping to stop people with genes which evolution might not favour from dying.

a posable thumb

As a species we haven't lost the ability to do anything. As a society we place less emphasis on certain skills in favour of others, so some skills aren't used as much any more. We can still do them if we learn how, though.

Whereas the ancient Greeks and other ancestors managed to invent or build things without resorting to technological means.

Of course they used 'technological means'. Just nothing like as advanced as we have now. And in some ways the Greeks got into a bit of a rut - they worked out how to build a temple with stone and then made them to pretty much the same design for centuries but barely made use of the arch.

Technology is of course an incredible feat in itself

Like 'technology' is just one thing? If by 'technology' you just mean computers - they're a means to a great many ends. Most of which you may be completely ignorant of - advances in science and engineering are a bit like swans, they probably seems so effortless to laypeople that they just take it for granted without them having any idea what goes on under the surface using both human and artificial intelligence (still a lot more of the former really)

People can't decide whether or not to eat something, not eat some, go to a wedding, etc without asking mumsnet

It's less messy than examining chicken gizzards.

Anyway.. yes, the small part of 'technology' which is social media is mostly just another form of community and knowledge transmission. If I wanted to learn to spin wool, weave it and make clothes from it doubtless I could find that online, plus stockists. Whereas if I was an Ancient Greek woman doubtless I'd have learned those skills from my mother ... because that's what I'd have to spend a lot of my time doing. Making clothes for the family. Wow. That's if I was lucky, and wasn't a slave...

Hm. I'm not in the least sure that's 'more skilled' than using my fingers to type and control a mouse as I write software that's then used by other scientists in rational design of biologics.

AIBU as the 2020 version of throwing chicken gizzards !
I love it, errol 😂

I think some posters are misunderstanding evolution. It's not about technological advance or even intelligence. It is, literally, "survival of the fittest".

Then we have social media which is creating a whole new generation of people obsessing over appearance and what people think of them.

Given the above, sadly, in this day and age I think that will be those with the most sociopathic instincts and who can manage to manipulate the general public into facilitating their own best interests therefore propagating their version of the species. For example, just look at how many children Boris has/will have. Even if, ultimately, humanity becomes so unable to work emphatically/altruistically, it dies out like the dodo.

Since purchasing my money pit of a house I have learned how to:
Remove old skirting boards,
Cut and replace new ones,
Change plugs, light switches and light fittings,
Lay carpet,
Remove woodchip,
Skim a wall,
Tile a splashback,
Change a sink,
Plumb in a washing machine and dishwasher,
And numerous other things. I learned some of this from my dad, some from my grandad and some from YouTube. I certainly feel upskilled. If I didn't have access to YouTube, I'd probably have just asked other people how to do it or possibly paid someone to do it which would mean that I wouldn't have learned how myself.

I also work in tech now and I cant tell you how much time, effort and resources go into creating some of the software you will just take no notice of. It's loads.

Investors are always inventing, they're just using a different medium now.

It's not survival of the fittest individual though. That's how Darwin saw it but like all good scientific theories it has been much refined since- which he would have approved of.

It's now best viewed as survival of the fittest gene. This explains why altruism is so important to pack animals like ourselves- your pack probably shares your genes so helping them helps your genes survive.

It certainly is bound up with intelligence and tech. Those with the intelligence and successful pack to control tech, will win the evolutionary race in the future.

"Whereas the ancient Greeks and other ancestors managed to invent or build things without resorting to technological means."

Err what?

You might find the book Sapiens interesting. It describes the way that humans developed in leaps and bounds when they developed methods of codifying knowledge so no one had to know everything essentially escaping the evolutionary disadvantages of our brains. The author has also written a follow up which is about technology (I think?). But to answer your question no, we are socially and technologically evolving beyond our biology which is pretty incredible because it means that we can evolve much faster than if we were relying on random gene mutations. We’re going forwards at the speed of light (or rather the processing speed of our fastest computers).

Evolution doesn't work like this. I think you mean societal progress.

I think OP is conflating evolution and civilisation.

Civilisations can certainly go backwards. And fall. And rise. Many times.

On this island alone it took nearly 1,400 years to be able to equal the technology and feats of the Romans, even though it probably seemed inconceivable in (say) 150 A.D. that anything could possibly change.

Before the Romans there were the Greeks ...

Before the Greeks the Egyptians ...

Sumerians

Assyrians

Babylonians ...

All mighty civilisations that rose and fell.

Mind you, China's been going for a while

Where is the line between societal progress and evolution?

The Neanderthals for example.

They are not our direct ancestor but more a cousin with whom we interbred.

As well as interbreeding with Sapiens so some of the population was absorbed, one of the reasons they're not around now is that they probably weren't able to organise as well as us.

Their sites tend to lack special organisation or zoning that you get with Homo sapiens, for example.

Neanderthals had art and possibly some form of belief in the afterlife but the evidence is rare and simple.

All of the above points to less societal organisation, culture and abstract thought. This is key to our evolutionary success.

Evolution and civilisation are the same thing though.

We view them differently as we have our own cultural bias in that we view history and archaeology as separate disciplines.

We see history as dealing with the written record - what happened from civilisation onwards, and archaeology as the rest.

Evolution and civilisation are the same thing though.

Not on this planet.