For letting 16yo DSS be financially independent

[SunshineAngel]

First of all - I'm fairly sure this little arrangement won't last. DP and I are finding it quite amusing, but willing to let DSS (16) have a go at what he's suggesting.

Recently, DSS has been making comments about how DP gets loads of money for him (£300 a month from DSS's mum, as he lives with us plus £80 ish child benefit) and apparently DSS sees no benefit.

Actually, he already pretty much gets his child benefit, as he gets £20 a week pocket money. In return for this, DP needs to see a tidy room on a Saturday, with his clothes put away (that I've washed, dried and folded and left on his desk). Also, DSS is asked to do the washing up 3 evenings a week. That is all he has to do for his money, and all he's ever willing to do around the house - and even then it's only so he gets his pocket money.

He has declared that he should be getting his £80, the £300 from his mum, PLUS the pocket money he's getting now. We are apparently treating him like a slave, as he should be able to have his room messy if he wants it, and shouldn't have to wash our dishes, when he's only used a plate, a cup and some cutlery.

To that, DP responded that if that's his attitude, we shouldn't have to do his washing, or tidying, or cleaning, or make his butties for college, or make sure there's always food in the fridge for him and snacks in the cupboard .. and DSS said fine. If we give him the £380 a month, he will do everything himself, and be completely independent. Like we're flatmates.

DP was quite amused by this, but decided it might be interesting (and ultimately eye-opening for DSS) to just let him do this for a while.

So, from Monday (which is also the start of half term) he has to do everything himself, take care of his own money, and pay for everything himself.

DP has said he can have his £380, will not be getting extra pocket money as he's independent, and he has to give us £50 a month back for his share of the bills (not enough actually but DP wants to give him a fair chance). He is not charging him rent, but has pointed out that if he was truly independently living as a housemate unrelated to us, most of his remaining £330 would be spent on rent.

This will mean he has to pay for his own college transport (£25 a week) and either make or buy his college lunches. He will have to cover trips out with friends himself (so no Daaaad can I have £10 for the cinema?) and get himself there instead of asking for a lift. He will have to buy his own food (I have helpfully said if he gives me a list of what he wants I'll get it from the shops if he gives me the money), buy his own snacks that he races through whenever he's in the house, cook his own food, wash his own dishes, wash, dry, iron and fold his own clothes, make sure he has enough things like shower gel, shaving foam, shampoo etc ..

I asked him what he was planning on eating for food, as he can't cook and won't let me teach him. He said it's okay, he doesn't mind just eating things from the freezer (I always bulk cook and do extra portions that can just be microwaved - so he means these) to which DP replied nope, if he was someone's housemate, that would be their food, not his, and that he had to buy his food with his money, and then cook it himself.

He will have to buy his own clothes, pay for his own phone bill (currently £20 a month which comes out of partner's account), his PS4 subscription (not sure how much this is) and his WoW subscription which I think is £9.99 a month. He also likes going to watch rugby matches, and DP has a direct debit set up for his season ticket, which is £20 a month, but he's paying that still as that was sort of for a Christmas present.

Basically, what we're trying to get across to him in this (probably very short) experience of him being independent is that, actually, while £380 sounds a lot to get "for him" per month, it actually doesn't touch the sides when it comes to how much gets paid out for him overall.

He actually thinks we're spending as little on him as possible, and just keeping the money for ourselves, and thinks for some reason that the child support his mum sends should be like his spending money - whereas that's not really the point of it!

He currently gets everything he needs, plus pocket money, and extras to go to the cinema or go for meals with his friends. We've warned him that if he wants to go ahead and be independent, all of this will stop and everything will have to come out of his money.

The question is: AIBU (or rather is DP being unreasonable - he doesn't have an account here) for actually letting him give this a go? He's been warned that he can't do it half-arsed. He either lives with us and behaves like a son (and gets treated like he does now - cushy, IMO, in comparison to some kids), or like a housemate and like the above.

He has chosen the latter option, thinking he'll have loads and loads of cash for playstation games.

Obviously, he has the option of changing his mind and going straight back to normal at any stage of the thing. DP only wants to let him to do this to teach him the actual value of money and how little it can actually buy when you're paying for everything and have to think about bills!

Looking forward to some input, and maybe hearing from people who have done this in the past. Although this is very much just letting DSS experiment, and have a bit of freedom (that we assume he won't like as much as he thought he would), I will admit that it hurts sometimes getting accused of not giving him enough, or spending "his" money on us.

I have found being a stepparent difficult, and struggled to adapt to not just taking care of myself, particularly as he was already in his mid teens when I met his dad, and if anything have overcompensated - so I honestly think he gets more than he would if he was my son!!

TIA.

PHONE: £20
PS4: £7
COLLEGE TRANSPORT: £108
WOW: £10

His monthly expenses from your OP are: £145 + £50 contribution to bills
= £195

So he'll have £185 for food and spending money which is £45 a week

DP and I spend £55 a week for BOTH of us, and we eat pretty well - plus cleaning products etc are bought with that.

£45 a week for food and treats is a LOT.

If the lesson you are trying to teach him here is that the money is spent on essentials - he'll not see that. He'll see himself getting an extra £25 a week (prev. £20 pocket money) to choose his own food AND he doesn't have to have house rules.

His mindset is that he should be benefiting more directly from the £380 you get "for him".
Your mindset is that £380 nowhere near covers his share of expenses.

You need to work out how much he costs the house in mortgage and utilities if you're goal is to teach him the how far that £380 will go.

Try and work out how much it ACTUALLY COSTS to house him - (how much electricity, water etc does he roughly use, how much does having an extra bedroom cost for the mortgage) and deduct it.

@ChuckleBuckles l didn’t realise this was the same child. Wow he is something else!!!

I there is a good chance this might backfire.

He will have £200 a month left after travel, phone, subscriptions, "bills" etc.

He can probably get a cooked lunch at college for about £2.50. A couple of MaccyD's saver menu 99p burgers, some pot noodles, multipacks of crisps and chocolates or some microwave ready meals in the 2 for £4... He could probably manage on £20 a week for food, leaving him £30 a week for spending money, more than he has now. It's quite easy to live off junk for not much money and he might actually prefer living off McDonalds and pot noodles. I can buy enough food for one in M&S for £30 a week so even if he buys nice food, he is no worse off than before.

Unless you buy him a lot of clothes and treats or give him loads of extra cash on top of his pocket money, it might be a long time before he actually needs something like new shoes and doesn't have enough money. Until then, he will be living the life, eating whatever he wants with money for "spends". I also predict that when he does need more money that is when he will realise he has 2 parents who should be contributing and expect £300 from his dad.

As for taking care of himself, he might not care about clean sheets or dirty plates on the bedroom floor. He can live on junk food and microwave meals without the need to cook... or wash up if you eat out of the packet. He'll eventually have to wash some clothes but that is probably less work than the chores he has to do now.

Is he planning on going to university? Most of them have suggested student budgets for food, rent etc on their websites. Maybe have a look at those with him to see how far his £380 (and £680 if his DF were to give him the same) would go in the real world.

I think it is a great idea.

My own dd has just taken on a weekend job whilst still studying, funnily enough she does want to eat out or buy so many clothes now she has to pay for these things herself.

It will be a good lesson for him.

I also predict that when he does need more money that is when he will realise he has 2 parents who should be contributing and expect £300 from his dad.

I think from the start of the plan the contribution from Dad needs to be detailed into the rent, electricity, WiFi etc that it will cover so this doesn’t happen

Sounds good, but if blows the £380 in the first week on PS games or whatever, and goes back to being usual, I would be docking £50 from his pocket money to make up the amount.

“Oh to be young again, when the freezer was the place where food just magically appeared!” So true!

But then his inability to cook is largely his parents fault!

I’ve been absolutely flamed on here for what I had dd doing from a relatively young age but she has been able to cook several meals (simple basic ones at first, pasta and sauce, stir fry’s that kind of thing) since she was about 12.

She’s now 19 and living in her own place and managing her budget, working and maintaining a home - she has friends her own age, some slightly older who still don’t know how to make a cuppa! Yes that’s extreme but even her middling friends are very much still at a stage of only managing the basic meals and even then they get in a tizz!

As a society we are doing our children no favours at all if we continue to infantilise and patronise them!

At 12 she was perfectly capable of cutting up food with a sharp knife, using a frying pan and boiling water with care. I know of at least two 20 year olds in her circle that their mums still hover when they boil the kettle!

I see on here all the time parents despairing of 16+ year olds (who are old enough to work, have sex, get married etc) who can’t make a simple meal or do a load of laundry BUT they’ve never expected or taught them to!

In my case my being disabled is a factor and dd understood it helped me if she did a bit more than maybe other kids did, we’ve had conversations over the years about it where I’ve felt bad about it, but every time she has said to me she never had a problem with it and actually quite liked that I trusted her to do it and liked the feeing of confidence and independence it gave her.

I have been a mature student twice and each time noticed how poorly prepared the younger students were by their parents - not just for uni but for life generally! I’ve ended up helping them learn to budget, cook, shop cheaply, launder clothes, change beds, sew, stand up for themselves as tenants and consumers... I’ve been happy to do it but honestly I’ve wondered what the hell the parents were thinking sending them off to uni unable to do life basics!

It doesn’t start when they’re 16 really you do it as a gradual thing.

I became a single mum when dd was a toddler. Even from that age she was perfectly capable of doing a reasonable job of putting her toys away, putting her dirty clothes in the hamper, taking her dishes through to the kitchen. She couldn’t do it perfectly of course but you praise them and thank them for the effort. And as they get older they gradually do more.

That conversation I had with her when her dad had given it “I have to give your mum HUNDREDS to look after you” 🙄 was enlightening for her not just in terms of our personal finances but the discussion led on to her learning things like what council tax is and what it pays for and why rents cost more for homes in different areas etc. She found that really interesting.

I’d been discussing with her for several years anyway about being a savvy consumer, from basic maths (adding up the grocery bill as we went around the supermarket) to why I buy Tesco baked beans and not Heinz (cheaper, taste just as nice etc) and what adverts are for.

As she got older she’d help me with grocery shopping pointing out special offers but also we’d work out IF a special offer actually saved money (they don’t always, especially if a perishable that we’d not manage to use in time) but also discussing things like (eg) “yes I know fairy liquid seems more expensive but I’ve tried supermarket brands and they don’t work as well getting the dishes clean and the fairy actually lasts ages”

Especially before they’re contrary teens, kids are generally actually quite happy to learn such things and be trusted to undertake “grown up” jobs.

Netflix was mentioned and I realised I get to watch Netflix as dd2 pays for it and has set it up On my device with my own login- does this cost her extra? yes

The cheapest plan is £5.99 for one screen standard definition.

For 2 screens hd it’s £8.99

For 4 screens it’s £11.99

So not a huge amount per month but between the first 2 plans that’s £36 a year.

I’m sure your dd is fine with it, but I’m sure you thank her for the kindness too?

@nowayorhighway I too left home quite young, became a lodger and worked what would now be a nmw job (except there was NO nmw then!)

My pay was £90 a week, my rent £40 and admittedly that included gas/electric and I didn’t have to get a tv licence (but it was also poll tax years so I had to pay that). I was walking distance to work which was fine in spring/summer but come autumn/winter i had to make sure I had weatherproof clothes and shoes. Food cost me about £20 a week, and I had to buy my own laundry detergent, toiletries etc too. So that left me £30 a week to set by for clothes, shoes, haircuts, transport to get shopping (lived in a village so nearest supermarket was in town which meant a bus or train trip and it actually made more sense financially to get a taxi back once a week than struggle with a weeks shopping on the bus maybe breaking stuff or buggering my back/arms as the job was manual. Cheaper this way than doing 2/3 trips a week by public transport too), transport to see then boyfriend, replacing any linens or pots/pans/crockery/cutlery as needed as I had to have my own, and then whatever might have been left over from that was for Make up, non essential clothes & shoes (had a “uniform” at work I had to wear so that was priority and they didn’t provide that), what little socialising i did.

Going clubbing was a rarity as it was too expensive plus I worked weekends so I didn’t want to be working knackered. But most of my friends and the boyfriend were in similar financial positions to me so we did things like (showing my age!) rent a movie from the video shop, make our own popcorn or just stock up on snacks from supermarket/village shop but we’d all pitch in so eg 1 would get popcorn, 1 would get crisps, 1 would get the pop etc and we’d have a “film night” at each other’s places.

Or we’d go for a swim & hot choc after, or for picnics in the better weather.

If one of us had an empty place on occasion we’d do our own “parties” where again we’d do it pot luck style including bringing our own alcohol, usually cheap unbranded beers and bottles. We’d play some music on our “boom boxes” and just generally have a chat/laugh/dance.

Occasionally we’d go to the cinema, our local was independent and so while not as expensive as the chains wasn’t cheap either so that would be a treat eg for someone’s birthday.

But as my friends were all in similar positions I never felt hard done by especially.

Good luck to all of you. It sounds fun and a great lesson for your dss.

My worry would be that he'll actually find it quite easy and will then feel justified to keep complaining that you're conning him. Have you thought about the costs of shared holidays, household cleaning stuff, loo rolls, washing powder, household repairs, insurances etc etc? If he is just buying his food out of his budget and none of all the other 'life' stuff then he'll find that he's got lots to spare.

I suggest keeping a spreadsheet of all the shared costs that you aren't charging him for, that he is automatically included in - not to charge him. but just to show him that in 'real life' he'd also be sharing the cost of all these too.

@ChuckleBuckles I have been tempted, trust me. The attitude is getting worse with everything passing day, he apparently doesn't need us and we're just stealing the money he's entitled to.

Where's his mother? If you're so awful why doesn't he go to live with her? He's old enough to decide that.

At this age we had a house meeting and discussed chores.
It started with ‘we all work/study full time and all contribute to the mess, so we all contribute to the clean up “.
Chore chart was developed.
DD’s got $50 a week and that covered everything from phones, food out, outfits, outings, presents, haircuts, the lot. I did not put my hand into my pocket for anything else except sports costs.
They are now grown, are very grateful to live rent free while they study, and are ver6 good at budgeting.
I will be very interested to see how this works.
Good luck

As a society we are doing our children no favours at all if we continue to infantilise and patronise them!

Not only do parents infantilise their adolescences, the peer pressure they give out makes it much harder for those parents that want to give responsibility to their teenagers much harder

I'd only give him one week's money at a time.

we're just stealing the money he's entitled to I don't think the money his mother paid for his care should ever have been discussed with him, but the horse has bolted now. I really think the conversation needs to shift onto him getting a job.

I'd start off with only a week or two at a time. I would also calculate an amount for rent - e.g. take the sq footage of the house and calculate an amount for his room. This is generous as doesn't even cover bathroom, living room, kitchen, and use of anything like a garage or downstairs cupboard for storage!

I don't think the money his mother paid for his care should ever have been discussed with him, but the horse has bolted now.

Sometimes you don’t have a choice. Especially if the NRP stirs it, or alludes to the “hundreds and hundreds” they pay

There comes a time where a discussion has to be had

Maybe let his mum and close family know just in case he tells them you abandoned him when the going gets though.

I don't think the money his mother paid for his care should ever have been discussed with him, but the horse has bolted now

There isn’t much choice when the child reports to the NRP that their mum’s spending it all on holidays and requests that it’s paid directly to them.

It’s a great idea, might save you some money! And if he likes the independence and needs more £££ he might actually go and get a job to top up the ‘income’

I think it's a brilliant idea and I think he will soon be asking g for it to go back to how it was, but hopefully he can learn that he needs to budget for when he actually reaches adulthood and Bill's are a priority before going out with his mates etc. Good luck op cant wait to find out how this turns out

sendhelpppppp So he can join the army and shoot people, die for his country but is a legally a child at 16...really

1. You can't join the armed forces under the age of 18 without parental permission.
2. You can't shoot people as you won't be sent on active duty until you're at least 18.
3. You can't die for your country as you won't be sent on active duty until you're at least 18.

Biker47 So what do they do in the army at 16 then?

Train 🤔

You can get married at 16.