AIBU? Carers cutting corners during visits

[FatherDickByrne]

Hi everyone, first-time poster, long-time lurker - please be kind!

My husband & I care for my DM who lives with us. She has dementia so it’s tough for everyone as she has episodes of delirium where she talks non-stop for 36 hours. She has double-handed care (2 carers) with 4 visits a day, organised via the council but part-paid-for by her as she’s over the threshold.

We like the carers and respect what a hard job they have especially when my DM is delirious. We also understand that they aren’t paid well and are under time pressure. However, we use their visits as an opportunity to switch off/take a break from what is otherwise a pretty relentless juggling act of trying to fit work, cooking, shopping and housework around caring duties. We sometimes take a day or evening off and one of the carers sits with Mum (she can’t be left alone). We pay her more than her usual hourly rate for this and she is always really happy to do it.

Anyway, to my AIBU... it seems the carers are always looking for ways to cut corners, shorten their visits (which are anything from 30-45 mins long) etc. They also pray during visits (they are Muslim) and occasionally this gets to us as they take it in turns to shut themselves in Mum’s bedroom to do it. We understand that there are strict protocols within the Muslim religion but wonder why the carers think it’s OK to pray while they’re working. I think this would matter less if they didn’t also try and cut corners/leave early but it just seems off somehow.

Has anyone else had experience of this? We have never said anything but are wondering about asking for a meeting with the care coordinator and bringing it up as an issue. Or is that mean, given that the carers are under as much if not more pressure than us? TBH, it’s hard to separate this issue from all the other issues we have with the situation - the mobiles going off every 5 minutes even though we’ve asked the carers to put them on silent, the lateness, the trying to leave early, the not properly monitoring Mum when she’s drinking a hot cup of tea and the many other niggles that come up on a daily basis. I feel like I can never get a break as I’m constantly reminding the carers about something or other. It’s exhausting 🙁 AIBU and WWYD?

Anyone?

I think you should either bring it up with the care agency (if they are with one) or if not possible I think you will need to look for new ones, I have carers for my mental health and have had the odd bad one but they never last. I also have had Muslim ones and they have never prayed while on my visit and one of mine is 3 hours long, I dont think that there religion should get in the way of there work there are many professions that wouldn't be able to.

I also think you should bring it up the the care coordinator mine has been really helpful with any issues I have had. It's not on they are there to help you and give you a break and it doesnt sound like that is happening.

It sounds really stressful, you must be exhausted by it all. I would ask for a meeting with the care coordinator as your mum is the priority here. Hope you are able to get it sorted.

They also pray during visits (they are Muslim) and occasionally this gets to us as they take it in turns to shut themselves in Mum’s bedroom to do it. We understand that there are strict protocols within the Muslim religion but wonder why the carers think it’s OK to pray while they’re working.

Pretty certain Islam has clear exceptions for the need to pray (actually having worked with Muslim doctors, I know it has). Which suggests they are pulling a fast one, and hoping peoples ignorance about Islam and peoples unwillingness to challenge it will let them get away with it.

Imagine an airline where the pilot has to stop to pray mid flight. Do they get the non-Muslim passengers to help out ?

I wouldnt have a problem with them taking time out to pray- as long as it was their time not mine.
If they are paid for 45 mins, they should do just that- if they take 10 mins of that time praying, then they should be 55 mins in the house.

I cannot imagine that their supervisor knows they are taking caring time to pray.

This definitely needs reported. If they are giving this standard of care to you mum who has you around to speak up for her, how are they treating vulnerable people who live alone and have no one else there?

My mum used to have carers coming to her home three times a day, they were supposed to be there for twenty minutes and sit with her to ensure she ate properly. I used to go down early in the morning (before I set off for work) and leave prepared meals for her, they only needed heating up.

Her neighbour alerted me to the fact that they were in and out within five to 10 minutes, the company was being paid for these contracted hours but not doing what they signed up for. I complained to the manager but didn't really have any faith with them so my mum went into a care home which she loved.

Thank you so much for your responses! I’m going to show them to my DH now and come back after that. Thanks again 🙏

I would speak to the co ordinator. This is why families install cameras.

They sounds like absolutely dreadful carers...

So on a 30 minute planned visit, they're arriving late, leaving early, taking time out to pray, messing with their phones and not even actually monitoring your mum. Approx 15 minutes of 'work' then?

Bloody yes I'd be speaking to the care coordinator - telling them not to bother sending these jokers back and finding someone who will actually do the job they're being paid for.

I was a carer for 10 years, but in a home.

I would speak to the care coordinator about your concerns. I would mention the praying on paid time, not monitoring correctly with hot drinks and any other issues with the care they provide.

Being late is really annoying, but can't be helped. Sometimes you go to do your visit and the person is in a pickle needing more time than normal, emergencies, traffic etc. if they are very late, then I would bring it up, if could be something as simple as they need to swap a few clients around based on location/care needs.

Speak to their coordinator about phones. Is it their work phone or their personal? Personal should be switched off or at least silent, their work phone may need to be on loud, but that is something the line manager can confirm.

Don't feel bad about bringing up the issues, the coordinator will be glad as they want to provide a good service, but they often don't know what happens out on the road

Agree with others.
Make notes of everything.
Start noting on a daily basis the time keeping and praying while being paid etc.
Meet the coordinator.

It sounds like a hugely pressurized situation OP, these carer's are to support you, not make life harder.

It's not acceptable. They are being paid for a service that is being poorly provided.

💐

I had very similar circumstances to you. Elderly mil living with us, dementia, not able to leave her alone... We complained about the carers and switched to direct payments. It meant we were able to employ our own choice of carers direct

Sorry to hear about your difficult situation. I think it sounds like these carers are taking advantage of your good nature, and I second what the pp mentioned - they are also likely to be cutting corners on visits to those people who have no one to advocate for them. Definitely report.
My mum had carer visits last year, some carers were good, some were appalling. I did not feel I could depend on the carers, and although the visits were better than nothing I do not think they were sufficient to provide adequate care for my mum’s needs.

YANBU

One of my relatives has carers some of whom are muslim. They don’t pray at patients houses ever, and wouldn’t be allowed to anyway as she’s incontinent and her room therefore isn’t clean. Definitely complain - these people are definitely taking the piss.

I worked as a carer for 9.5 years, the last 3 years with end stages dementia specifically, and every one of the 'niggles' about the carers you mentioned is totally unacceptable.

Please do as PPs have said and contact the care agency. Detail everything in writing, don't leave something out because you might think it's too small or not a big enough deal.

Your mother is very vulnerable and needs the highest standards of care. You and your DH need time to be able to relax and trust she is being looked after properly without corners being cut, prayer times and general laziness.

I'm angry just reading your OP. It gets to me how some people can enter the caring profession if they don't even care enough to give the service users the 100% they deserve

^^ I agree with what everyone else has said, especially enchiladas above.

I do wish people wouldn’t try to cut corners all the time.

When my grandad was ill and needed carers we realised the we’re cutting corners so we had a sign in/out sheet so we had the carers signatures beside the time they left and we also had a security camera at the front door (this was up before he was ill not to monitor them but helped us prove how long they were really staying). We also always had someone in the house keeping an eye on them but not caring for grandad themselfs just making sure they were. We complained to their manager and provided all our evidence and my grandad got new carers and everyone was much happier. We kept the sign in/out sheet until the carers where no longer needed.

Im a care manager and cutting corners/taking time out to pray is not ok unless the client-in this case you-has agreed it in advance.
Call the care office and report what is happening.

That sounds like terrible care. Please contact the agency to discuss the issues.

I wouldn't be hahhp about them using your mums bedroom for prayers. It's her private space. Abd should only be gone into when essential for her care. Not for non essential reasons.

Thank you all for your responses. I really appreciate your taking the time to come back to me and the support and 💐 It means a lot.

I think you’re right and we do need to request a meeting with the care coordinator. TBH, these carers are the last in a long line of carers we’ve had over the 2 years Mum’s lived with us. And the best. They are well-meaning and polite and they do engage with my Mum - in fact, she often bursts into song during their visits, which is lovely.

Part of the reason I’ve hesitated to speak to the coordinator before now is that I’ve done it before - with this company and the previous one - and had some success, some lip-service and some rudeness. And I don’t want to lose these carers as even though they cut corners and pray and try to leave early, that is a walk in the park compared to what previous carers have done.

Here’s a few examples:

• arguing when asked to put phone on silent because they need to be contactable in case their daughter’s school calls (I work in nurseries and we’re not allowed mobiles when we’re with the children)
• texting while discussing the above
• looking at social media and texting while shut in the bedroom with my DM
• talking in their own language even though this is not allowed by the care company
• leaving my DM unattended: (i) without her frame when she is known to try and get up and walk and has a high risk of falls; (ii) with a hot cup of tea
• not engaging with my DM or worse, having private conversations/a laugh
• reporting me for abuse (admittedly, I did raise my voice but only after this particular carer had gone on and on and on at me, saying or rather shouting, ‘No lemonade, no lemonade, no lemonade’ over and over as she walked past me down the corridor into the kitchen and back out again)

The previous care coordinator asked 2 young carers who’d really been taking the piss to leave and said to me: ‘If they knock on your door again, you have every right to call the police’ - great!

Anyway, I will read back over everything you’ve said and arrange a meeting. I think I’ll ask for face-to-face with the carers present and see if we can work it all out. I think I’d be happy with them praying in Mum’s bedroom as long as they did it in their own time and preferably when she’s in another room.

Thanks again!

The whole prayer thing - I've managed Muslim staff and it is allowable for them (from a religious perspective) to save up their prayers and do them later in the day e.g. when working. So YANBU and if they are telling you otherwise they are CFs. The other issues are also a concern and you should bring them up with the care co-ordinator.

Oh and I really like the idea of a sign in/out sheet, Isithometimeyet. So simple and draws everyone’s attention to time-keeping without having to have a conversation every time.