To set family boundaries here?

[MtnBikeChick]

This is gonna be long 😭....Wise MNs, advice on minefield family situation. I find it deeply difficult to be around my dad and brother at the same time. My brother has all sorts of mental issues - depression, anxiety, personality disorder, and is definitely on the spectrum (though his diagnosis is hazy). He is extremely obese and eats all the time- huge amounts of food. He is irritable and snappy and shouty - mainly at my dad. My dad responds and they often bicker and snap. My brother finds my mum irritating and tells her off for silly things. My dad does similar to my mum. My mum is a lovely, calm, kind individual. My dad and my brother have always been like this but since becoming a parent I have found it increasingly hard to deal with and be around. I HATE it. Christmas was awful and I vowed never to do it again. My brother has started to snap at my two little boys too, as kids can obviously be irritating occasionally, but they don’t mean it...and I don’t want them around it. I don’t want them seeing my brother treat my parents that way. All in all it’s a horrible toxic dynamic but no one has ever dealt with it. Now my dad has said he wants us all to go away to some farm in the middle of nowhere (where he grew up) - his treat - and I don’t want to go. I can’t make an excuse as he’s finding a week we can all do. The farm isn’t even very nice. It’s pretty crappy self catering in the middle of fields. The dog will like it. I can’t put myself through this and I don’t think there is any benefit to it for anyone. My dad never ever thinks he is in the wrong so if I am honest about this he will like get angry, then sulk. My mum would probably suggest doing it to keep the peace but I am kind of done with that now. I have my own mental health and my own kids to think about. I hate being around them together. My dad alone isn’t too bad but my brother alone or with my parents is awful. The added piece is my sister’s husband was suddenly killed in a road crash in 2018 and I think the grief and trauma of that has made family get togethers even harder. My dad has no idea I feel like this and it will hurt him if I say we won’t go but I really think I need to address this situation- not sure how though. I think my mum will also be cross with my for causing what she perceives to be a "split" but she has already said this proposed week will be "very stressful" - who goes on a holiday if 6 months ahead of time they know it will be stressful?!! So sorry for the length!

Stay strong

OP your DP are trying to control you with FOG.
Fear
Obligation
Guilt.
Been there and putting boundaries in place was scary but 10 years down the line its the best thing Ive ever done.
You have rattled the family cage and they will respond by telling you, you are wrong, to blame and sadly your DM is complicit in this as was mine.
Nope stand firm and put your DC first.
Pop over to the Stately homes thread for support

It was always going to get worse before it gets better. Your parents and brother will sulk, pout, guilt trip, blame, get angry and all the other negative emotions in between and it will all be directed at you. But remember you have done a good thing and prioritised your family, which is good and right and shows that even though you grew up like this, the toxic behaviour stops with you. Well done for standing up op

You have absolutely done the right thing. Time spent with my parents and siblings was awful. The constant atmosphere and arguing was so incredibly stressful. I wish I'd called a halt to it sooner. One of my siblings has repeatedly asked my daughter to go and stay. DD refuses as she can't cope with the way they all talk to each other. It amazes me that they have so little insight.

You done the hard part of actually telling them, don't back down now due to them trying to guilt you into it.

OP I am really glad you are sticking to your guns . Those atmospheres can be unbelievably toxic.

I've done similar with my sister recently. I'm relatively limited contact with them all anyway but I see my DP maybe twice a year. However the last couple of times my overly dependent 46 year old sister (who still has to have my mother make doctors appointments for her ) started the creep. She ensure she turned up everytime I wa there and without fail would be vile to someone. Either myself or my mother , make a scene , sob cry demand , whatever that particular days issue was.

Last time I gave up after her shenanigans that involved embarrassing my ds1 (at which point we left) running out of the room crying because of a call (not emergency) from her son and expecting her 15 year old daughter to run with her to save her.

I stopped I told my mother afterwards I would no longer be in the same room or building with sister. I told her calmly quietly and that I was happy to visit her and her to visit me but I would no longer engage at all with my sister and leave if she unexpectedly arrived.

My mum actually wasnt surprised by this but df decided I was being difficult.

Frankly I dont care life is short and I have no intention of spending another 40 years putting up with my sisters histrionics and behaviour.

I honestly think you are doing the right thing.

He is saying that what I did was the most hurtful thing anyone has ever done to him and that I am driving a wedge in the family.

I hope you pointed out that it was he and your brother who are driving that wedge in?

Have they ever sought any sort of treatment or social care for your brother? They really have to address the issue of what is to happen to him as they get older.

My DH had similar....I do sympathise as it was really awful for DH.

We lived abroad when we met so didn't have to deal with his family dynamic till' we returned...when we did, we were both shocked at how his Dad, Mum and sister communicated.

Lots of snapping, shouting and rude comments CONSTANTLY.

I was agape as I'd not met them before and my family were always respectful to one another once we were adults.

His sister once shouted at DH...so rudely...in front of our DD so we stopped seeing her for a while.

Things have improved now through conversations and a lot of us leaving them to their own devices. They make an effort.

"Dad, DB's behaviour is the problem, not mine. It doesn't bother you, but I don't want to spend a week with him."

He knows that really, OP. He's just trying to guilt trip you.

Don't let your dad guilt you into changing your mind. Stay strong.

I'm after seeing this thread and I 100% agree with what @picklemewalnuts has suggested as a reply to your father.
I do hope that your boundaries are respected and if you feel like it and feel brave enough to say it you could go with something like "Dad, I'm trying to do my best by everyone here, but first and foremost is my family - my children and my husband, just as your trying to do. With that in mind, even if you're not happy about why I'm doing what I'm doing, you must respect that it is for the good of my family that I'm doing it. If you can't respect that, then we have a much bigger problem here and you need to take time to think about things. As it currently stands, I will not be going on a holiday where DB and you are going to be constantly bickering at one another or at anyone else, including Mum as it not a good environment for me, for my husband or my children to be in."

Interesting that it’s all what has hurt him........not caring about how it has hurt you and his grandchildren.
Stay strong, if you go back they will see it as they were correct and you were wrong, it will be twice as hard next time as you will have validated their behaviour in their eyes

Be prepared for the situation to get much, much worse OP
DB may be elevated to "Golden Child" if he isnt already and you the outsider.
They will close ranks and your DM will be "the flying monkey" with messages along the lines of "DF is soooo hurt"
Buckle up the ride is going to be a bumpy one .